Eg Solutions Share Discussion Threads

[wayneb] 17/10/2004 10:54

Hi,it is not listed,with the debt burden the people in the city say it is worth ZERO,so they want us to believe.There is 4 years and 9 months left on the 7 year rule.

[greyseal] 17/10/2004 10:33

graham99114.... (or anybody) What is Chelys worth now? Is it a listed company ? How does it compare to the £1.8 billion?When does the 7 year rule lapse?

Thanks

[hampster] 16/10/2004 15:05

Aint that the truth

[htrocka] 16/10/2004 10:55

sounds like a lot of money..but if you read todays `Telegraph`...`over the past fourty years, house price inflation has risen by 5000% while in infaltion(under the retail price index) has risen by 1200%.....thats an average of 30% p/a.....that then brings down the £1.8bn to £857m in real terms over seven years.. not exactly peanuts, but hardly a mountain iether....never the less still a 1100%retun to the banks for their £150m `investment`....and we will probably end up out of pocket.I remember my first wage packet when I left school...£3.17/6p a week..I thought I was millionare,..more money than I could spend.My ambition then was to be on £1000 a year,now the DHSS give out more than that..and I remeber my insurace salesman explaining to me that if inflation continued at an average of 7% throughout my life then by the time I retire the average wage would be about £4000 per week........his words are still ringing in my ears today...p.s. he also stated that if I put away £2.00 aweek from the day I started work...until I retired, at 7%compound,,,,I would retire with £1 million ....but then £2,00 out of £3.17/6 was a lot of money....HMG were taking 9d (about 3.5p..)about 1%) out as pension payments...that was bad enough...however it will soon be payback time. I had hoped that the Energis investment would lead me into a comfortable retire ment....you can`t win them all....possibly even put the retirement off for a few years as a result of the investment......Now that British Energy have done an `Energis`..and put the company into a shell..out of reach of it`s shareholders , added to which MP`s have refered to the stock exchange as a `lottery`, also the endowment collapse by Insurance companies not to mention the pension shortfalls,one can now begin to understand why the people in this country have such a mistrust of financial institutions and stock exchanges....and as a result will revolutionise the way people will look after themselves in their old age namely that ones property is the biggest investment and proven returns one can get...and is an ivestment that one can actually enjoy........and equity release schemes will be the way forward.....investing in companies such as British Energy and Energis , whereby the public have lost their investment ....and the news of this loss has created a fear on other members of a wary, nervous and hard working public, that has put, what I believe , the final nail into the pension crisis coffin of this country by the public moving away from financial instruments controled by others....who have done nothing but create short-falls........

[finmac] 14/10/2004 00:05

Good Evening folks
You lot still here amazing, but I suppose those of us who lost money on the Energis bebarcle have a right to complain now and then.I personally am waiting for the company to be sold for an excess of 185 Million and look forwars to speding my 7.5%. Have a nice day
Regards
Finmac

[htrocka] 08/10/2004 20:27

if Tony Blair gets in again...we`ll be in the Euro,...so what?.. I hear you say,...if HMG have got any sense, they would `hammer` the pound to their own advantage the pound before entry (by improving the country`s infrastructure)and not subsidise the rest of Europe...hence Mandleson job....so whats this to do with Energis....the answer is that three/four years down the line, with a `devalued` pound....the £1.7bn Cheyls valuation will be `peanuts`.

[gerry2] 03/10/2004 20:44

ht
Will they name the new company after a reptile also ?

[htrocka] 03/10/2004 08:23

looks as if British Energy have gone down the ENERGIS route,ie taken the company out of the hands of its shareholders by delisting and forming a shell....I can almost sense that the same creditors must have been involved. In both cases the Major shareholder, who was also a creditor had a conflict of interest which infuenced the outcome to the detrement of the small shareholder......but at least the the £5bn of BGY debt restructuring....the shareholder still has an interest, albeit only 2.5% plus warrants at a later. date.

[wayneb] 30/9/2004 08:36

Looks like somebody did know what was going to happen in 2001


erdna - 30 Mar'01 - 12:47 - 5 of 12


EGS will be worth £1.20 a share by the 16 th of April.
A heavily debt burdened co.which can not pay its interest payments and it is a matter of time that it will be "repossesd by its lenders.
Loke most of the players in its field.
It has nothing to do with how good they are.
Their debt is too big.
no one will take over them..and lenders will not lend no more.

by the 16 the of april


Regards

[htrocka] 26/9/2004 08:32

gerry2...you said you sold your BGY for 4.25p....when the announcement came that British Energy shares were to be de-listed...the spread went to 18p to buy to 1p to sell....however since the news of a`silk` coming on board...the price has recovered .. The Energis share price dropped to 1p....news of the Energis `silk` came well after the `agreement` had been finalised....too late,no chaance of a recovery, the shares were already de-listed.

[gerry2] 25/9/2004 10:40

htocka
To Quote The Bloke on Those Welsh Adds on TV !


" WHY " ?

[htrocka] 25/9/2004 06:52

It`s a funny old world, National Grid, who pulled out of the `restructuring of Energis, yet retained Energis Polska...are classified as a `utility`. Now we find that Centrica, another `utility`, is expanding it`s empire by moving into the telco business.

[gerry2] 24/9/2004 20:12

htrocka
These hard done by Shareholders ?
Are They long Term Holders or are you confusing them with short term profiteers ?
One loves to hear Ducks farting in water for the next Meal.

My only regret is I sold my BGY at a loss last year at 4.25p.
I could have been Quacking with the other lame ducks ..
LOL

[htrocka] 24/9/2004 19:42

The British Energy legaly binding and `approved by the EEC`,Reconstructing`Plan (ie the take-over of the company by it`s creditors) and it`s opposition to the said plan by the ousted,nigh non -existant, non-agreeing shareholders....is to be settled in a court of law in mid October. Lord Grabiner QC, is representing the shareholders. The shares rose 16%on news.Personal comment. By mid October,we shall all know if these `reconstruction`plans under the veil of bankrupcy/administration (as in the British Energy and Energis scenarios) are legal....without a shareholders vote.?....The British Energy shareholders feel they have been hard done by and are demanding a better deal.........an interesting one for Energis shareholders.Should the BGY shareholders, who a are demanding 30% of the reconstructed company, win their case, I would like to know why the Energis shareholders were not offerred 2.5% of the re-vamped company, as in the Telewst, Marconi, British Energy scenarios..as opposed to some, yet to be agreed, pie in the sky. There must be some legal precedance why these companies, although heavily diluted, nevertheless retained it`s shareholder base....and all with varying degrees of dilution....as if there appears to be no concistant format on which a restructuring is based.Lord GrabinerQC, is to call into question the validity of these so called `legaly binding` creditors reconstruction plans.In response, British Energy claimed that it warned it`s shareholders that any objection or opposition to the creditors agreemnet will end up in the company being delisted( which would still require shareholder approval) and put into a `shell`, leaving the shareholders with nothing,....and all this is still subject to a shareholders vote.POLYGON, the BGY shareholding hedge fund, have retaliated by sueing for shareholder rights in the newly proposed `shell`. We were never given that option. British Energy`s creditors claim that if they `pulled the plug` the company would have no choice but to go into administration,however as part of an `agreement` package, they would retain 95% of the company.( 2.5% to be with warrants at a later date)...so why have we never been given the option to vote on the outcome of our company.... why have British Energy gone to all this trouble ... what must be a nightmare to them...and retained their shareholder base.? Why did they not do an `Energis`...and just take the whole lot over...? must be a reason in law why they did not......otherwise they would have done so.P.S..on the one hand British Energy are claiming that Polygon are attempting to change the Articles Of Association of the company, however British Energy had no qualms of approaching the government to re-classify the company as a `Public Body` thereby subjecting the whole company under a new set of rules

[graham99114] 16/9/2004 19:17

MySharesGoingSouth

on 16/07/02 - Chelys took over Energis's operations and the shares were suspended - they announced that if "energis" is sold within 7 years for "in excess of £1.8bn" then the "old" shareholders would be entitled to 7.5% of the amount above the 1.8bn

if it is sold for less than 1.8bn then share holders get nowt
if it is sold after 7 years then they get nowt
even if they sell it for excess of 1.8 bn - within the 7 years it will then go to the bondholders vote as to whether the share holders get anything

An action group was formed by disgruntled share holders - but they fell at the first hurdle

So in short they aint worth a lot - well chances are nothing

sorry to be the bearer of bad news

[mysharesgoingsouth] 15/9/2004 16:34

Hi,

Rather than read through all these posts trying to glean out the salient
points, can someone please advise in a nutshell.

i) Are shares now worthless and have no chance of ever being anything else??
ii)Will they ever be worth anything?
iii) Shall I dispose of my share certificates?

Many thanks


MySharesGoingSouth

[htrocka] 12/9/2004 10:00

Ref steviIII...nice post (QUEST up to $3.05) The out come of the British Energy story may well be to the advantage of Energis shareholders...If Brandes, Polygon, etc,..(who hold about 14% between them) are successful...then we as Energis Shareholders could form another `action` group. But this time not with money but with the Energis shares themselves by approaching the likes of Brandes fund management and all Energis shareholders were to give half their holdings to the fund manager in exchange for fighting our course...obviously on the back of a British Energy `win`. At present our shares are worthless...on the otherhand, if Brandes `beat` British Energy (the crux of their argument is the state of the insolvency and that the board had no right to act without shareholder approval...and to be honest I can`t remember voting on a `deal` of any kind) and then could be persuaded to fight on our behalf in exchange for half our shareholding .... the other half of the shares could then become very valuable... Take out National Grids 30% stake...this leaves 70%...this would give Brandes 35% of Energis....larger than that of National Grid, I think they would be interested and could be persuaded....but all depends on the British Energy outcome.....and you never know...Brandes may even approach the `first` action group for some up front payment....for Brandes it will be a win/win situation.......what have we to loose...this could be a way out.All I remember from the Energis `collapse` was being informed at a very late date that an greemment had been reached by it`s bankers....everything else came via the media.

[the pink pound] 06/9/2004 00:14

I think we should vent our anger at the obvious culprits here........The national grid.

I propose we hit them where it hurts....in their profits. I say we all stop using electricity until they bow down to our combined power.

If you agree, then send a pidgeon to my house, post haste, as i'm about to pull the plug.

[htrocka] 05/9/2004 19:25

p.s...an interesting piece in todays `Independent``....`apparently one only needs to aquire 10% of a company to exercise majority shareholders status with all it`s implications, however,the point is that this month should be interesting in that unless demands are not adhered to... and British Energy fails to alters its recontruction plan in favour of its shareholders, the shareholders (with 2.5%...might as well be called `ex shareholders) are taking the company to the European court on charges that it failed to look after the interests of its shareholders....This could set a precedence for Energis shareholders..

[william-just] 05/9/2004 09:39

Well i for one will purchase 1 share of aney re float and vent my displesure at the first share holders gathering who would join in.

[htrocka] 05/9/2004 08:32

another relative piece in todays papers.......`Rebel shareholders of British Energy have offered £800m of debt-..in effect, cancelling the need for financial reconstruction`...end of quote....If the banks managed to take over Energis with the imput of £150m...that equates to a rights issue of 25p each Energis share. I would have gladly given 50p....but the option was never allowed to materialise....the Bankers wanted it all. One of the vulture funds offered existing shareholders 5p a share,we were not even allowed this miniscule amount....they wanted... and got it all.

[htrocka] 04/9/2004 09:26

from where I`m sitting...it looks as if The Bankers,Creditors, National Grid....carved up the company between themselves. Unless National Grid were major bondholders In Energis Polska.(which I very much doubt as this was set up as part of the UK expansion plan)......they shouldn`t be there. The last I heard of the Polska operation was that it was, just after the admin order, it was put up for sale. In the depressed market of the day, a buyer failed to materialise.....then some how got seperated from Energis UK and ended up in the hands of the major shareholder....Question,.... was this the `deal` for walking away from Energis UK..?..The admin order for Energis UK would have required judicial approval and also consent of the major shareholderie National Grid.They in turn could argue that Polska deal came as a result of themselves acting under two hats, ie, both creditor as well as major shareholder to Energis UK, and that aquisition of Polska,which they are now and yet again are major shareholders came as a result of being creditors to the UK operation... never the less it looks as if all concerned...bar the existing Energis minority shareholder, have been in a win/win situation. When Energis Polska gets floated on the Polish equivilant of a Stock market...not only have National Grid made a fortune out of initial sale of 60% of Energis UK,..then went on to capitalise on the write of value...thereby converting a paper loss into a profit against the main company....and soon to make yet another further fortune by floating Energis Polska......and we minority shareholders of the original Energis UK operation .... have no input....have lost everything, with apparently no re-course...Prime minister Edward Heath comes to mind...when he stated that this is the `unacceptable face of capitalism`....The skulldugerry that goes on in the stock exchange is reflected in the the present pension industry demise, and explains why the pensions industry is going through a quiet revolution in that the individual is investing in his/her own property,enjoying the asset through his/her life, then capitalise on it at retirement. The honest, hardworking person no longer trusts the Stock exchange.The sharks and gamblers will be left to feed frenzy on themselves. The irony of course is that when a company such as Energis UK look to re-float on the stock market....the succes or failure of the float will then be dependant on the ability to yet again to con the man in the street.....ie the potential new Energis shareholder. It will be interesting to see how the media will approach the problem of the former Eneregis shareholder when the float time comes.....it`s not over `till the fat lady sings. However, all that aside , the problem of the involvement of National Grid and Energis Polska still remains unsolved.Why did National Grid , who were privvy to the admin negotiations, decide not to re-invest in Energis UK and let the bankers `buy it` for £150m....but then decided to go on and`acquire` the loss making Energis Polska.?............it looks as if they did`nt walk away after all.. Maybe, just Maybe,...as the old lottery slogan goes another scenario exists whereby Energis Polska is being `saved` so as to be re- intergrated back into the Energis UK camp for an enhanced valuation prior to any float....so as to take it well over the £1.8bn target.. and give something back to the original shareholders...?...as in the British Energy scenario.