Csf Group Share Discussion Threads

[awesometactics] 30/3/2013 23:55

Hi Guys i am very interested in this and the recent drop is tempting me in, What do you guys make of the recent RNS and is the fall over exaggerated??

[gspanner] 28/3/2013 12:12

Also well said: I try to avoid companies where the directors have clearly previously had their head in a the trough too much, love to see directors who own a reasonable percentage so avoid dilution if they can.

Good luck with finding some suitable investments.

[mattjos] 28/3/2013 12:03

gspanner .. yes, I'd agree with that (although in the case of ACTA I had only factored in one more dilution to go to 150m and in the double digits rather than single digits for the share price - only time will tell).
Obtaining cash to fund expansion is always hard, no matter what the state of the economy & the city will argue that putting together those that need the funds with those that have the funds is its job & that, in its purest sense if very sensible.
It's the accompanying arrangements that i get fed up with. Mgmnt share options constantly re-based lower, mgmnt rarely cut or manage their remuneration to be sensibly aligned with revenues and cashflow, the city usually manages to get some sort of a ratchet put on the funding deal over and above their fees etc.
Maybe I'm just too simplistic in my views

[gspanner] 28/3/2013 11:46

Mattjos

I dont think AIM is cynical. It is a way that companies obtain finance where credit through other means is too risky (or as currently impossible to find). The issue is that early on in their life AIM companies are usually impossibly overvalued (unproven intellectual property, oil/gas that may or may not be there, etc); but become undervalued when they begin to mature and sell product, etc. Most investors get in too early and lose patience. Acta is one of those companies, which I believe we have mutual interest. I am under no illusion my share holding will be diluted several times before sales become significant, and look at what happened to the share price there before it has finally emerging as a player in a very dynamic sector.

[igoe104] 28/3/2013 11:06

I CAN simply do a review and my outcome is Adrian Yong must step down.

ps it will be interesting to find out what is the best direction to go with this company ?

[mattjos] 28/3/2013 10:19

learning the truth & crowing about how much you've all made from it does not detract from the fact that it is, in so many ways, a rather cynical operation & not one that sits comfortably with me in the way it operates.
I have both won and lost and overall made money from it but, analyzing it like this is more akin to reflecting after a night at the casino than investing, per se.
I guess i simply have higher expectations of the way people should act in business than some others here. Money, as is often observed, has a corrosive influence

[renew] 28/3/2013 09:55

Mattjos
Many of us learnt the truth about the AIM market years ago.
What took you so long????

[masurenguy] 28/3/2013 09:53

Good post #985 IC and I thoroughly agree with your comments. There are plenty of foolish people who just dismiss a whole market with gross generalisations. AIM can be a minefield but if you know where to look then you can successfully pick your way through it. I've both made and lost money on individual AIM shares over the past years but my gains far outweigh my losses.

I was in and out of this stock for a modest profit of circa 20% over 2010 - 2011 but have kept this on my watchlist since then. Just wondering whether this might just prove to be an interestingt asset play if they are acquired by a third party.

[mattjos] 28/3/2013 09:42

Itchy, I would not disagree with much of what you say .. the thing that annoys me the most is the middle-men really. I would much rather see a more transparent linkage between investors and companies that is not complicated and clouded by the chaps in the middle who dont add value

[itchycrack] 28/3/2013 09:13

Well despite all the comments above I have personally made a sizable fortune from AIM over the past decade or so that is single handidly going to fund a very very comfortable retirement for myself and my family. Yes, AIM is high risk and you will get a few dogs, but there is massive potential if you know where to look and do your homework. You pays your money and takes your choice, its that simple.

Most people loose money on AIM stocks because of 1) poor research, 2) poor risk management (i.e. usually putting way too much in one stock), 3) poor portfolio diversification, 4) not running winners and cutting losers, 5) people not understanding the dynamics of stock and world markets, and fundamental economics.

Lets face it, most investors are lazy, they want to buy a stock, see it immediately rocket, sell, and then claim they are so clever! Reality check!
People who constantly bleat and whinge are normally those who suffer from points 1 to 5 above. I rest my case.

[dvb99] 28/3/2013 08:52

Regards AIM shares, you can always reduce the risks - eg I do not buy resource\mining stocks on aim, or foreign companies ( especially chinese ) where the corporate governance leaves a lot to be desired.
There's just too much added risk

[monkeymagic3] 28/3/2013 07:02

I have just farted and had a slight follow through moment. My pants now have more long term strategic value than CSFG.

[mattjos] 27/3/2013 23:47

just imagine, for a moment, that you had this great company that had the potential for untold wealth ... would you share it with the 'masses'? & in the process be forced to part with your money for some grovelling-git in London with a suit and a spreadsheet + a whole bunch of faceless annoying private investors?
Only if you really badly wanted out or, feared the worst was in the offing and wanted a comfort zone.

[mattjos] 27/3/2013 23:06

AIM share ownership is nothing more than pass the parcel .. with luck, you'll reach the target gain you had dreamed of achieving ... once reached, sell the damn thing before the music stops and let A N Other other bear the 7-series type depreciation.
The directors wont give a toss ... they get rewarded every month &, if by some terrible set of completely unforseen & saddening circumstances the share price should collapse, have no fear!! We have a remuneration committee that will grant you options at a lower share price & find some benchmark basis to justify a pay-rise . After all, the idiotic market keeps giving us more money so, why not lets use it ... it's for-free, ffsake!

[mattjos] 27/3/2013 22:58

The AIM market, in its day-to-day trading, seems to exist on the basis that "share xyz was valued at £n at some stage in the past & so, on that basis, today's price, being x% less than £n must therefore be a bargain" .. so i'll buy it now and it will therefore go up in value.
Psycho-babble chaps will tell you this is a form of 'Anchoring' or some such gibberish .. but, that is how humans (in the form of investors) are wired mentally ... in the same way that folk will buy a five year old 7 Series BMW on the basis that it cost £70k new but, now is only £15k so it must be a massive bargain ... other than the £5k service bill around the next corner & the 20mpg it delivers.
Go on, tell me you haven't thought that way. I know i have

[mattjos] 27/3/2013 22:48

From experience, let us summarise the EOY discussion with the auditor;
"Where do you want the accounts to be?"
"A Profit / Loss of £XYZ please, because of matters a) b) c)"
"No problem .. may we assume that we remain the auditor for next Fin Year?"

Draw your own conclusions .. Most small company accounts are better categorised as Jackanory ... stock , intangibles, miscellaneous, expenses, adjustments, write-offs, depreciation etc etc. It's all cobblers. Proven CASH generation is the only proof of profit. What is in the bank, now and after reliable Debtors-Creditors.

Of course, i would not dare to tar CSFG in this category ... I am quite convinced their accounts are 100% reflective of the truth & that their Auditor is entirely trustworthy & that they came to market completely convinced that in so doing their new shareholders would be suitably rewarded in the form of Equity appreciation ... this is the very essence of why they came to market is it not?

It's just that the market, as depicted by the chart, might suggest otherwise. Of course, the blood-sucking 'professionals' & the Co. Directors have fed well in the last 3 years. Happy Days for them. To me, begs the question;
Why did they go PLC and not remain private? If it's such a great deal, why would you share it with the great un-washed & not trouser the riches yourself? Particularly as the market demands you lift your skirts to public inspection every day?

[diku] 27/3/2013 22:24

On a general note I have often wondered if the figures presented in the accounts are whole truth and nothing but the truth....I am particularly suspicious on admin expenses ...

[mattjos] 27/3/2013 22:14

diku ... sad as it maybe in the short term but, I'd much like to see a broad-brush culling of AIM companies. most are rubbish, run by shiny-shoed, second-hand car-dealers merely grasping for the next month's pay-packet. they spout BS in tandem with their 'professional' advisers, craftily penned in an RNS that PI's take as gospel, much like Pavlov's Dogs.
AIM would be better served by a social funding network, direct from PI to company, whereby the PI can set the terms by which he is prepared to invest and not the dishonest sharp-suited city chisellers.
At a stroke, the spivvy middle-men are done with ... this is what the internet is all about - cutting out the middle-men who offer no value whatsoever.
It will happen soon enough and the death of the typical broker like Seymour Pierce is only the beginning

[diku] 27/3/2013 22:00

Mattjos....you could not have said it any better and I second that post....me thinks every UK PI's should completely boycott buying shares in AIM directly or indirectly via fundies...

[davidosh] 27/3/2013 14:35

The two UK based non execs here both appear to be from Corac another listed entity. Anybody know the background to their appointments and can they be independent?

[somerset lad] 27/3/2013 11:41

ADVFN is some way off on the debt figure: the last balance sheet shows total liabilities of £16.5m, including a loan of £496k + £18k under finance leases. It's right on net assets of £42.7m (= 26.7pps).