Burford Capital Share Discussion Threads

[pal44] 23/12/2019 10:27

why can't BUR bod do it like NMC they beating MW today

[time_traveller] 23/12/2019 09:11

Most did - way above. But the party's not over yet!

[ozzmosiz] 23/12/2019 08:29

You assume all share holders bought above today's price...they didn't

[time_traveller] 23/12/2019 08:19

Precious little Christmas cheer for Burford shareholders in the meantime. The Billy-no-mates at the Xmas party.

[djderry] 22/12/2019 04:16

And another thing.When the Burford share price is twice and three times what it is today,all the shorter people will be buying furiously.

[kazoom] 21/12/2019 22:05

Also - just for clarity - as I in initially mis-read the post above about

"Burford Capital Ltd. investors who accused the litigation funder of manipulating metrics to make its returns look better voluntarily dismissed their New York federal district court suit without prejudice......" As indicating that Burford had stepped away from an action.

It is not that. In fact three (un-named AFAIK) Burford Investors were suing the company, presumably on the basis of the Carson Block paper, they appear to have accepted that Block's claim's were baseless (surprised? Not me!) and therefore withdrawn the claim.

So that seems to be positive news.

[lomax99] 21/12/2019 21:59

Not surprised, muppets.

[kazoom] 21/12/2019 21:51

There is a big difference between the owner of an unlisted company expecting regular business updates and shareholders in a listed company expecting the same.

The owner of an unlisted company receives this updates IN PRIVATE :

> No issues of giving away commercial (or legal) advantage.
> No compliance issues of giving unclear or potentially mis-understood information.
> The ability for direct feedback face to face to ensure the information is fully and correctly absorbed.

I can understand why as a shareholder you want total disclosure on everything; but equally I can understand why that is an un-realistic.

Imagine that the comment on a particular case was that "we are worried that our opponent will raise issues related to XYZ, if they do then the case is likely to fail" - It would be okay to recount this information in private, to the sole owner; you would not want to RNS this to the world so that private investors can be kept informed.

I personally see no problems with the way Burford currently disclose.

[djderry] 21/12/2019 20:03

Proper order.A spurious lawsuit.I contacted the law firm concerned and told them it was outrageous but if they wanted to sue Muddy Waters I was in!

[jeff h] 21/12/2019 15:13

"Burford Capital Ltd. investors who accused the litigation funder of manipulating metrics to make its returns look better voluntarily dismissed their New York federal district court suit without prejudice......"

[trident5] 21/12/2019 09:32

Argentina defaulting on debt repayments again, and they're not big amounts.

[dgdg1] 20/12/2019 13:15

I understand what adnan is saying. There is in interesting argument in saying that a sole owner would probably expect to have regular updates. But equally I believe it is quite normal for a public company to update only twice a year. One might imagine various reasons why the discrepancy arises. But it seems that adnan accepts that there is for some reason a difference. It is only because there has been a traumatic attack that the argument is that now should be different. So ultimately it is not so much about the comparison to a private company, more about the special situation. But much as I myself would also appreciate an update, you could equally say that this is more of an emotional argument than a logical one. More to the point, the trauma relates to the fact that some people have (for so far unsubstantiated reasons) concluded that management cannot be trusted. On this basis an update would hardly help as the update in itself wouldn't be trusted. So this does weaken the argument for an extra update. Also, management might believe that making a "special" update strengthens the argument that there is an "issue" at the company, while they are keen to project a "business as usual" attitude. Finally, my memory may be playing tricks on me, but I have a feeling that someone mentioned some time ago that during the process of applying for a listing on the NYSE the company may not give a trading update. I am not actually sure why that should be and I would be happy if someone would confirm if this is true or not.

[adnan17] 20/12/2019 12:40

Not sure if I am being described as a prolific poster.

But nevertheless one of the failures cited during the attack was Corporate Governance. Part of having an effective Corporate Governance structure is the relationship between management and shareholders and the frequency in which information is passed from management to shareholders.

Management have a responsibility of running the company. However, shareholders also have a responsibility of holding management to account. The duty that shareholders bear is easier fulfilled if management engage shareholders with more regular updates particularly if the company is in a period of duress.

The last communication from Burford to shareholders was on 30th September and did not have financial information. It was more in relation to market manipulation. Hence, the last communication regarding any financial matters was in August. I.e. 4 months ago.

Let me ask you a very simple question Maddox. And I will keep it as simple as possible. If you owned 100% of a company and you had appointed a manager/CEO to run the company; regardless of the type of company, how often would you want the manager/CEO to update you on financial performance? Nothing too detailed (i.e. not audited financial statements). Just a very quick summary (possible 3-6 paragraphs on performance).

[maddox] 20/12/2019 12:23

Trident,

Precisely right. When there is nothing to say the best advice is say nothing - something some of our more prolific posters could take on-board;-)

Regards Maddox

[time_traveller] 20/12/2019 12:18

Well then, that's not exactly reassuring!

[trident5] 20/12/2019 12:10

"Management must take into consideration market/investor/institutional perception of the company"

They probably are, and have concluded that saying nought is best.

[adnan17] 20/12/2019 12:04

William

I'm not referring to a normal company during a normal period. Burford has been badly attacked and has still not recovered after 4 months. Hence, given this is not a normal period and not a normal attack as an owner I would want management to up the ante and provide more frequent updates.

Not for the company to behave like nothing has happened and continue to wait until March 2020 to provide the next financial update.

Until this saga is fully over, management should be providing updates every 3 months in my opinion. Once it is over, normal reporting/business can resume.

Management must take into consideration market/investor/institutional perception of the company

[williamcooper104] 20/12/2019 11:53

It's possible that a CFO/CEO to spend upto a third of their time on investor relations Quarterly reporting would make that worse and encourages short termism

[costax1654x] 20/12/2019 11:49

Nmc same story like Bur,remember bur at 370?

[adnan17] 20/12/2019 11:45

Maddox,

It is a relatively small privately held company and hence there is no insider information.

My point is that management must maintain a good working relationship with owners of the company. Whether that relates to a private company or public company the same principal applies.

Management work for the owners. Not the other way around. As (collective) owners of the company we have a right to regular/frequent updates. My original question was therefore if you owned a company outright how often would you want management to update you. I would have assumed monthly.

Hence, it is not too much to ask to be updated 4 times a year.

Whenever, I take a stake in a company I consider myself an owner of that company. As should you all. Hence as owners of the company how would you like management to behave?

[stewpot3] 20/12/2019 09:16

Are we seeing a little price stability returning here? Perhaps the fact that M.W. have moved on to another victim has helped a little.

[maddox] 20/12/2019 08:04

adnan17,

If the company in which you own 6% was quoted the info you received would clearly be price sensitive and you if you act on it would be insider trading.

However, there is little benefit in reporting an update until there is something to say. When something worthy of an update occurs I'm confident Burford will RNS it. There are few companies that have published and explained the litigation market, how they operate, their accounting policy, individual case histories (not open ones that are still in litigation - for obvious reasons) as much as Burford. Their reporting is extensive and detailed.

OK your sitting on a loss - live with it or sell - or see the value available and buy more.

Regards Maddox

[williamcooper104] 19/12/2019 10:35

Bur have always shied away from giving earnings guidance which is fine as it reflects a volatile reality (though does not argue well for valuation on earnings basis) But would be good to get an update on listing - even if it's just a confirmation that it's possible to do - and other corporate governance issues

[adnan17] 19/12/2019 09:34

As I stated previously I encourage all long term shareholders to request an update.

I take the view that I am a rightful owner in a company (albeit admittedly a small owner). If I owned a small business outright, then I would want to know on a regular basis how the business was performing. This to me just makes common sense. I would not expect to be in the dark for months.

Yesterday I had lunch with another small business which I own 6.5% of the share capital. He didn't go into the nitty gritty, but all he said was he expected revenue for 2019 to be triple versus 2018. And he outlined some plans he has for 2020 to continue growing the business. Didn't take long. Didn't give me exact numbers. But that's all I needed to know, until the financial statements are drafted in February 2020.

Would be great to get a brief update on Burford.