British American Tobacco Share Discussion Threads

[kipper999] 26/10/2021 17:42

Hi Charlie, CASS is correct, the spread is diddly sqwat.
My broker (iWeb) wants £5 a trade. Stamp is 0.5%.
I sold out before last divi @ 2,731 on the assumption the drop would be more than the 54p.
Seem to recall i worked out at the time that i needed about 15p on a share at this value to cover costs.
Got back in with a third of my £10k @ 2,552. Thought it would drop lower & wanted to keep some capital back. Got that part wrong....lol
But. Any market correction will probably drop these too so may get my chance yet.
Next XD 23 Dec.
Good luck all

[cassini] 26/10/2021 17:29

The spread is diddly, 0.04%.

OK, double that to account for selling then rebuying but it's still << stamp duty.

[charlie9038] 26/10/2021 17:13

kipper you back in this yet?
Does your strategy work with 0.5% tax when buying and the loss in spread on a sell?

[kipper999] 26/10/2021 15:34

Carpet,
yep, sell on the rise up to XD. Worked well for me last few times here.
Also, see IMB. XD on 25 Nov for 48p. Risen recently from low 1,520 to today touching 1,586.
I think buyers will accumilate on the run up so raising the share price further.
I have pencilled in 1,650 as my sell point; higher if possible.
Lock in some profits & hope the drop is more than the 48p

[professor john koestler] 26/10/2021 15:23

Taken from a PMI slide from their Q3 results...


Continued Positive Regulatory Developments Recognizing
Harm Reduction Potential of RRPs

• Switzerland: On October 1st, the Swiss Parliament adopted a new Federal Law on Tobacco
Products and e-cigarettes, foreseen to enter into force by Q1 2023:
⎼ Dedicated product categories for non-combustible products such as HTPs, e-cigarettes and oral tobacco/snus
⎼ Non-combustible products have textual smokeless Health Warnings versus graphic health warnings for
cigarettes

• New Zealand: August publication of regulations for smoke free products, following the passage of
the Smoke-Free Environment (Vaping) Act 2020:
⎼ Recognizing that heated tobacco products are smokeless and have the potential to reduce harm, branded
packaging for HTPs can now be re-introduced with a 30% text warning specific for non-combustible products

• Egypt: Smoke-free products clearly differentiated from combustible cigarettes in both fiscal and
regulatory treatment

We continue to support regulatory and fiscal frameworks which recognize the substantial
risk reduction potential of non-combusted alternatives compared with combusted tobacco

[car1pet] 26/10/2021 15:00

Price seems stuck around range 2590 to 2605. Needs to break out. The December ex div date will see a rise. I may sell if it gets to 2730 in December before ex div date and get back in after it drops back to 2600 as has been the pattern over the last few quarters

[car1pet] 26/10/2021 10:26

Hi Stepone but isn't there a difference in that a shorter, once they have sold stock they don't hold, has a limited period of time to buy and fulfil the sell order whereas an investor can buy and sell anytime. Presumably if a shorter sells stock he/she doesn't have and doesn't buy to fulfil the sell order there must be a penalty to pay

[zorija] 26/10/2021 10:25

Do shorters always buy back ???

[stepone68] 26/10/2021 10:19

Hi carpet. Yes, shorting is simply selling, with a view to buying later at a lower price.

Whereas 'investing', is buying, with a view to selling later at a higher price.

i.e. there is no difference.

[zorija] 26/10/2021 09:59

The market is a balance between buyers and sellers, thus excess sellers will drive the price of the stock down. Simple supply and demand.

One big issue with shorting is that the holder of the stock, when held in a nominee account, is not aware that his stock has been loaned out to short the stock. There should be some form of control to stop this if the stock holder is against this short selling practice...

[car1pet] 26/10/2021 09:49

Stepone68 I'm not knowledgeable on shorting but I thought it did drive prices down as that is the whole purpose of shorting I think. With shorting the seller does not hold the stock but sells with a view to buying later at a lower price to fulfil the order so if the price does not go down there is no point in shorting. I'm sure someone who knows more than me will correct me!!

[stepone68] 26/10/2021 09:35

Shorting doesn't make stocks go down any more than buying makes them go up.

[grahamburn] 25/10/2021 19:54

Many investors DO buy at high prices because they believe the shares (company) still has a good chance to appreciate whilst the sellers are of the opposite opinion (possibly) - that's what makes a market.

Shorters, rightly or wrongly, are all part of a sophisticated market. They believe that the shares are overvalued. Very often they are.

[medieval blacksmith] 25/10/2021 18:21

We are talking about equities, not bonds etc..

The uptick rule exists for a reason.

Investors generally don’t buy at high prices - speculators do.

We can argue all night. I have better things to do. Enjoy the casino. :)

[chucko1] 25/10/2021 17:46

It goes on all the time because there are many market participants who see it as a useful function. Especially in the bond markets where it is essential. And all options markets, no matter the underlying asset.

There have been many assessments of the issues regarding shorting by various commissions, and none of them, as best I recall, would agree with your viewpoints. At worst, they would want certain controls, many of which are currently in force. In the US, the uptick rule is not currently in force, but that is under discussion again.

As for destructive shorting and the effects on employees etc., there are too few incidents of this to be taken seriously. As for raising capital at better prices, investors lose! Investors are real people too, even if institutions are the conduit. The impossibility of shorting certain meme stocks will eventually cost real people a fortune at some stage.

[medieval blacksmith] 25/10/2021 17:21

All because it goes on "all the time" doesn't make it right. People get murdered "all the time".

OK it might ADD liquidity but is the marginal additional liquidity needed?

ERM, no. It isn't.

As for market manipulation, shorting is a domain generally for institutions (private) with large pockets. They prey on companies that are going through difficulties (often hidden from most investors) and through massive selling DESTROY potential for equity capital raises at fair prices.

Who stands to gain who stands to lose? The few stand to gain at the expense of the many including all stakeholders like employees.

Market manipulation the other way - long - improves opportunity to raise equity capital at very good prices improving the balance sheet as they go along. Tesla is a good example - Elon understands this. Stakeholders don't generally lose apart from those who were stupid enough to buy in at silly/transparent pricing.

[chucko1] 25/10/2021 17:04

Shorting goes on all the time in all sorts of securities (and commodities) markets. It certainly adds liquidity and also efficiency.

That is a wholly different issue than manipulation. In any event, as Specto opines, I have seen a lot more manipulations aiming to benefit from security price increases than the opposite. By far.

[soleman1] 25/10/2021 16:21

Shorts don't make stocks drop, try seeing it as borrowing from the share price now to pay it back later.

[spectoacc] 25/10/2021 13:34

"....You may as well ban selling".

Absolutely.

Market manipulation, from longs or shorts, is another matter. But interesting how that's massively biased towards rampers, and that the "short reports" alleging fraud etc nearly always turn out to be right. Wirecard, NMC Health, Carillion, and many many more.

[stepone68] 25/10/2021 13:02

Carpet - the ADVFN buy/sell data is entirely meaningless. Apart from anything else all these are 'trades' - with both a buyer and a seller.

Banning shorting is also ridiculous - you may as well ban selling.

[kipper999] 25/10/2021 12:43

Type in Cineworld and you will see how the shorts are registered.
Cine is often most shorted stock in FTSE.....

[car1pet] 25/10/2021 12:33

The drop at the moment is probably due to the pre-market price on BTI down .47% at $36.

[car1pet] 25/10/2021 12:31

Thanks Kipper. BATS is 0% but as you say < .5% not recorded.

[kipper999] 25/10/2021 12:09

See shorttracker.co.uk/
Tho any shorts below 0.5% are not recorded