Begbies Traynor Share Discussion Threads

[spectoacc] 18/11/2010 16:00

I've no interest at all in BEG as an accountancy firm. I'm interested in them as an involvency specialist. They're one of the best names in that business, quoted in just about every newspaper article on the subject, and producers of the much-quoted "red flag alert".

Edit - see the website:

[bonio10000] 18/11/2010 15:53

Name? Rubbish - they are a small/mid size firm. Barely on the radar of anyone who is serious.

[spectoacc] 18/11/2010 15:49

Name they've got; international, aye, the Big 4 will always have them on that. ROK weren't exactly a job requiring "international" though.

(And luckily we're not talking about audits - we're talking about being appointed in involvency cases).

Scale - if you added the above towns, you might end up with a City. That's what BEG are doing IMO. Put it this way - if they did the opposite, & demerged regional offices under new names, then they'd be even less likely to pick up any of the big jobs.

[bonio10000] 18/11/2010 15:47

How does getting lots of small firms specialising in small jobs allow you to pick up larger audits?

Bit like saying if you take Oldham, Bury, Shrewsbury, Sotckport etc you will end up making Real Madrid.

Not the way it works I'm afraid. There is a scale, international expertise and name they will never be able to get over.

[spectoacc] 18/11/2010 11:39

They need scale to get the big business off the Big 4 (eg PwC got ROK, as noted above). But I don't think there is (or will be) any shortage of business for BEG going forward. I prefer them to concentrate on insolvency side.

[spaceparallax] 18/11/2010 11:27

I feel that many observers are puzzled by the modesty of the business performance during what should be prime time for the sector.

[bonio10000] 18/11/2010 08:36

When you have bet the house on a vast increase in insolvencies in 2-3 years time.....why not double up and buy more practices.

If I were a shareholder I would be looking for them to diversify risk ffs.

What are they going to do with all the staff 3-4 years down the line?

Not every business will fold.

[thickasmince] 15/11/2010 19:28

My problem with BEG, as a shareholder, I feel they are not making the best of what they have. And here we go again, yet another insolvency business bought.

[spectoacc] 15/11/2010 07:33

Personally I don't mind them buying up insolvency businesses, it's the tax side I'm not keen on. They need maximum scale - look how eg ROK admin. went to PwC.

[thickasmince] 14/11/2010 20:27

I agree with your world domination that Ric T appears to wish for but I don't believe he will achieve AIM domination, never mind the world. When will this constant buying of smaller businessess come to a halt? Maybe he should concentrate a bit more on what they have, including converting profit to cash at a better rate than they currently achieve.

[spaceparallax] 11/11/2010 10:27

A strange day's activity yesterday, but looking more positive now - hopefully we've safely tested and proven the support.

[spaceparallax] 09/11/2010 14:33

Sp looking rather worrying unless the 62p support holds firm

[spaceparallax] 04/11/2010 14:43

Rik Traynor seems intent on World domination. I do wish he'd stop acquiring and spend more time consolidating

[spaceparallax] 03/11/2010 09:19

BEG have proved to be rather an enigma.

[thickasmince] 14/10/2010 17:08

The share price has fallen, simply due to a de rating from about 20 to nearer 10 ,largely due to management giving out the wrong signals by promising results that more often than not, didn't live up to expectations. When interest rates start to rise and the IR take a firmer line, then there is a possibility of some better times for this one.

As for Tenon taking this one over, that would surely be a reverse takeover as they are quite a bit smaller than BEG, I would have thought.

[spectoacc] 30/9/2010 12:01

The theory is that insolvencies rise well after the recovery starts - and IR largesse has prevented many from going under who soon will..

Interestingly, the tax side has always been the loss-making, value-destroying side of the business - but has finally turned the corner and is making profits again.

Personally I agree: I wish they'd just stick to insolvency work.

[wcjan26] 30/9/2010 11:51

good theory, but they have managed despite their service lines to destroy enormous shareholder value throughout the worst recession in 70 years...

leads me to question management credibility. i had the misfortune - in a non investor capacity i should say - to speak to one of their leading tax people some months back which did not leave me with a massively favourable impression

[spectoacc] 30/9/2010 08:55

At risk of being the resident bull:

Yes, it's only "inline with expectations" and "weighted to the second half", which could mean a miss if the second half doesn't deliver. But this has been a v strange recession, loads of co's kept alive on life support and taxpayers/Inland Revenue largesse. If you think the IR will keep allowing tax deferment, then perhaps BEG are a short (on a fwd p/e of 7 & yield of 5%?).

But even if the second half doesn't see more co's go under, then BEG are still well set IMO, because even if you don't subscibe to the double-dip theory, insolvencies still rise in the early years of a recovery.

Personally I think the likes of the IR have been holding back the floodgates, and whilst they won't suddenly let go, there should be an increasing stream of business to come.

[wcjan26] 30/9/2010 08:24

yes, i should have shorted this when i spotted the run up the other day!

[typo56] 30/9/2010 08:19

Not a great trading statement IMO. Smells of a warning of a warning to come.

[spectoacc] 26/9/2010 08:35

Thanks, missed that. BEG is far from "sh*t" though, it's v cheap!

IC "Buy" article not super-bullish to be fair; points out p/e is 8, yield is about 5%, and insolvencies tend to lag by about 3yrs. (Also points out tax division gone back into profit).

Personally I think BEG's too much of a niche "brand" not to be taken out some time - perfect fit for a co like Tenon perhaps? Just speculating.. Would probably have to be an agreed bid though, if it ever happened.

[mymillie] 24/9/2010 17:40

Tipped in the IC.

[jai17] 24/9/2010 15:34

Im wondering the same as I haven't seen any news..

[wcjan26] 24/9/2010 15:02

crikey - why is this sh*t rallying so strongly? are they divesting some of the garbage parts?

[m.t.glass] 22/8/2010 17:58

Four years later..

The BBC are apparently featuring online begging in an upcoming edition of one of their business programmes - but I don't know which one. Will see if I can find out.

EDIT: Apparently press reports this week of a clampdown on street beggars in Lincoln prompted a local radio phone-in response suggesting beggars might be more comfortable begging online in libraries (though I guess they would need a PayPal account or somesuch to recieve donations?) and that is what triggered the hint that the BBC would look into it.