Auction Technology Share Discussion Threads

[digitalis] 03/2/2012 12:36

stag look at my profile....i dont do dupe....tread carefully chum.....




i buy stock in companies where the picture is not clear.....when it becomes clear i believe Adventis will be worth multiples of its current valuation.....anyone that doesnt agree with me thats fine.....take it up with the company.....as you can see,there is buying....not selling happening,you can also take that up with LSE if the buys/sells are confusing you....bye,bye





[e-mail]

just incase you address your concerns to the wrong email address.....he replies very promptly....no excuses stag




love your stock vote for Adventis stag....bit amateurish that isnt it!.....

[silkstag] 03/2/2012 11:01

Darias, insightful email. In writing I have accused the Adventis Directors of deceit and breaching AiM Rule 10 in their 20 January 2012 RNS. They could sue me for libel if they think I am lying. They could certainly complain to ADVFN who would email me asking me how I justify my strident views. I am right and have proved it based on ATG own accounts etc. I believe ATG is in a c£5.8m black hole, is bust and shares will end up 0p when the deceit is exposed to all. The Directors have taken no action against me as they know I am telling the truth.

Digitalis, you are a dupe propogating the Directors' deceit. Sorry, but Adventis is not the normal short-long difference of view. Its continued listing is dirty.

[darias] 03/2/2012 08:44

Digitalis

I am still with SS on this one he appears to have done the research and you must agree that the RNS did not compare apples with apples. Terms were changed "Gross revenue" rather than "turnover" this meant I did not know what I was looking at as I posted.

SS has said a lot of things which, surely, the board would want to do something about but they are keeping their heads down. Why no complaint to ADVFN at the very least!

This share does not smell sweet. A little bit foxglove(y) to me. I would rather put my money in a prunus. They smell sweeter.

[digitalis] 02/2/2012 17:42

this ATG thread has been like a room with the curtains closed.....as i said expect more buying....25k will fill the quota gently,remember only 48 mil shares here,.....my order has been in over a fortnight,its only a quarter filled......


i think i might raise my offer a tad tommorow,the 25k buyer is currently getting priority...


keep up the good work stag.....it is getting a little repetative....yawn








psion is a VERY happy client

[bubble pricker] 02/2/2012 13:24

digitalis, you keep referring to "a 25k buyer". Your statements are pure speculation. You do not and you cannot have any information about who is behind any given trade. You have not a shred of evidence that different trades of a size of 25k are connected in any way. You are trying to mislead by repeating your speculative statement as if it were fact.

[silkstag] 02/2/2012 13:09

Digitalis, you are clutching at non-existent straws:

If Adventis House had been sublet then that would have merited an RNS given it was only September 2011 that the Chairman included its 'rock-round-his-neck' status in RNS.

ATG has no cash just bank debt and a huge excess of creditors over debtors. Total black hole (shortfall) about £5.8m and growing.

The advertising businesses serving tech clients can grow massively (from 2011 earnings of £0.4m) and still have no hope of covering that £5.8m black hole, so it is irrelevant if the staff feel perky about their business improving.

As it happens, if 2012 numbers were good in the bchannels tech business, then the earnout payments would go up so the black hole also gets bigger. ATG hasnt paid for it yet.

This is not like nromal AiM companies. It is a people business (so no growth or valuation mircales possible) and it has excessive debts built up by over-payign for comnpanies which turned out to be worthless when key staff left. This has happened before in the marketing sector eg Saatchi.

Shares are dead. Keeping the AiM listing is a con. ATG is in a Zombie Adnministration to get the bank paid off. The market has been misled by the 20 January 2012 RNS. The full accounts wille expose the con when you see my estimate of the black hole size is about right.

[digitalis] 02/2/2012 12:24

stag,can you show me some evidence that the adventis house is not sub let?......or are you just cutting bits out of past rns,s to bolster your point?.....the price seems to have found a level atm,i suspect the 25k buyer will be back soon.......rather obvious they didnt push any through yesterday once i made reference to it....amusing,but i suspect we are all adults here.....i like the prospects based on a valuation of £1-2 mil,fair value imho based on a cautiously optimistic trading update.....now to put the effort you do stag into a company that you think is worth zilch is...well lets say ..worrying?.....have you a third party interest in the technology assets?.....as i can see it atm there is a ramp up in staffing in the tech partner mkting sector....some excellent feedback from happy staff....sometimes that is a good guide to future progress,looking back on 6 month old numbers is so old hat......atm the market rates adventis 2012 prospects a lot higher than 2011....we shall see...






oh just a little point that has always bothered me.....the market once valued Autonomy corp at 1 third less than the cash it had on deposit!.....the rest is history....im sure there are thousands of examples out there of the market getting it wrong.....here i see the market giving Adventis/Waypoint a fighting chance......

[silkstag] 02/2/2012 11:53

Digitalis, some dire facts about the white elephant Adventis House:

"Very high central costs exemplified by a head office which is half empty and at a rent which is 'top of the market' rate'. [Nick Winks 28-9-11].

They have closed down a division and sold a business since then, so the occupancy level must be much less than half. I found the following on the owner's website:

"building on ground and two upper floors comprising approximately 10,200 sq ft...Let to Adventis Group PLC, new 15 year lease from 19th April 2007 at initial rent of £255,000 per annum exclusive". Add council tax and utliities etc, that is £300k pa.

Ouch, ten more years to run on the lease, so £3m liaility!

I believe the Adnministrator will be able to walk away from that lease as an 'onerous contract', so that might help the other unsecured creditors, but management probably have a duty to do that sooner than later to avoid throwing £300k pa extra into the already £5.7m black hole.

ATG is only about what % in £ the creditors get. Shares will certainly end up with 0p in £ imho.

[silkstag] 01/2/2012 14:46

Darias, ATG raised no new cash from issue of shares (fat chance) and in 2011 did not sell assets for any material cash. Creditors (net of debtors) must have gone up £1.3m in 2011 because ATG made a trading loss of about £1.3m.

A balance sheet must 'balance'. The profit and loss went down by £1.3m so net assets must have gone down by the same £1.3m. Either debtors went down or the larger figure of creditors went up. Thus creditors (net of debtors) went up.

[In 2011 the profit and loss also tanked by an extra £4.3m and that £4.3m reduced the value of the alleged asset 'goodwill'. That £4.3m was carved out of a different line in the balance sheet and I agree it didnt incresae the net creditors. It did show the previous goodwill valuation, signed off by Mr Winks and team, was grossly over-stated. Which is also what I posted before].

Further, the secured creditor (bank) went down £1.3m (coincidence same number). That means the unsecured creditors (trade) went up £2.6m. Or debtors went down.

You are right that the ATG Directors did not include this dire information in their RNS. They just said that they had reduced the 'debt' - they meant the bank debt. That RNS was decietful both in what it said and what it failed to mention. That is a breach of AiM Rule 10. There were other breaches.

Darias, the reason you 'haven't seen the figures to back this up' is that the ATG Directors breached AiM Rules by concealing them from you.

I am only relying on the fact that balance sheets must balance.

[digitalis] 01/2/2012 07:40

fully appreciated......lots of unanswered here....but come April if the waypoint team even look like they may be on track i may be a bull in a herd....all my opinion.....

[darias] 31/1/2012 21:33

Digitalis

I think it is interesting. For a share which nobody posted on for months. Suddenly we have a bull and a bear debate.

But unfortunately for you the bear posted his views long before you came on the scene and his viewpoint does carry more validity than yours'

You talk about "Mr 25k any simple research would have shown that in the early part of the bull run Mr 100k and even Mr 300k were buying. The Mr 25k came after this thread developed a new rash of posters.

The only problem that I have with silkstag is that he proclaims that debtors have increased but I haven't seen the figures to back this up.

Anyway we dont hold now and I feel somewhat relieved.

[digitalis] 31/1/2012 18:36

chill bp.....stag assumed i had bought at 7p with borrowed money,you assume i am partially sighted.....you are both wrong but i do not have to prove anything to you.....my cash is positioned well here,i am happy,you dont seem to be?...i ask myself why?... you should take it i am adult enough to do my own research.....


Mmm minerals and technology.....!.....nice

[bubble pricker] 31/1/2012 18:14

digitalis, your observation of a "Mr 25k" stake building contains a lot of assumptions. Your key assumption is that different 25k trades you see are buying trades by one and the same person. You have no way of telling who is behind what trade and thus your "observation" is mere speculation.

Irrespective of this, even if someone was building a stake, that proves or stands for nothing. A French "institution" was buying a stake in DTZ (to the extent they had to declare it in several RNS), less than two weeks before DTZ sold its assets at a price below its debt (but high enough to pay off the banks, funnily enough), leaving shareholders with nil. "Stakebuilders" can be clueless too.

[digitalis] 31/1/2012 17:42

compelling stag.....i have also been watching/researching stock long enough to spot weeks of steady wholesale buying....mr 25k has been mopping stock up from pre 3p to +7p....do your own research,my instinct also tells me posters that continually want to save everyone else from themselves may have an agenda....new numbers soon...i can,t wait!

[silkstag] 31/1/2012 13:19

Digitalis, the bank is the secured creditor and the Winks team have been paying off that debt (£3.5m down to £2.2m), so the bank 'likes' it. ATG has been loss-making so that bank debt reduction has only been achieved by increasing the net exposure of unsecured creditors. ATG is in a Zombie Administration. The team are syphoning cash out of the group to reduce the bank debt. Horrible for unsecured creditors.

My prediction of the black hole getting bigger in 2012 is based on facts. It got £1.3m bigger during 2011. Central costs are £1.2m pa and there is the dead rent of empty offices on top, guess £0.4m pa [if you know this actual cost then please post it]. The Tech division only made op profit of £0.5m in 2011. Thus 2012 is on track to grow the £5.7m black hole by £1.1m to £6.8m. Every year there have been exceptional costs on top so assume 2012 will be the same.

One of the two Tech management teams is beyond their main 3-year lock-in, so it is obvious they may jump ship and wipe-out the value of that part of the business.

Sorry Digitalis, but the facts show the shares are dead and ATG is only about what % in £ the unsecured creditors get. [The bank might get out whole if the Zombie Administration keeps syphoning. Any new creditors trading with the group are being violated imho.

[digitalis] 31/1/2012 12:46

im sorry stag the bank has seen Winks blueprint and likes the future imho.....a bb poster confidently predicting a bigger hole of £7m stinks of an agenda......if the bank thought the waypoint team were digging deeper(appears so obvious to a bb poster)they would call in the cash......sorry i dont agree....but thats just my opinion...

[silkstag] 31/1/2012 10:33

ATG is loss-making and burning overdraft (it has no cash). Black hole is about £5.7m and getting worse due to £1.2m pa central costs and rent liabilities. ATG is trying to sublet empty offices but even if successful any sublet will be at a discount so that grows the hole on any scenario.

Only valuable business is Tech which had 2011 opertaing profit of £0.5m, down from £1m in 2010. Even if Tech returns to £1m op profit, £0.7m earnings, might be worth £2.8m in a trade sale so only £4m creditors wont be paid, allowing for £1m Administration costs. Only a £4m shortfall is optimistic. I predict c£7m as the hole grows and some Tech management jump ship, like the others before them.

The shares are far from value even if Tech grows massively. ATG is only about what % in £ the creditors get, shares have been dead since 2010 imho.

[arf dysg] 30/1/2012 17:31

Very funny, SilkStag. Perhaps you should review the last few words of what I said:
"like you would not believe"

...and choose not to believe it.

[digitalis] 30/1/2012 17:07

stag.....i think its time for you to move on, i need your stock...my order is taking some filling....you keep pumping the blackhole and i will keep focused on the increased staffing needed/happening to cope with increase in b2 business....lol

heres a clue stag...."Adventis House to let " High quality air conditioned offices, situated in the centre of Beaconsfield New Town and adjacent to Beaconsfield mainline Railway Station.
TERMS - Available To Let either as a whole or in parts.

second2tweetsSecond2





Busy busy busy here. Lots of video and digital work going through the studio today, as well as 'old-fashioned' print.

24 Jan




second2tweetsSecond2





And it's Friday! The end of another busy week here at Second2. Glenn and Tanya tweeting today.

20 Jan










second2tweetsSecond2





Another busy day. In the copy room, we're working on a high-value mailer and the interface for an iPhone app, amongst other things. ^G

17 Jan

[silkstag] 30/1/2012 16:02

Arf, this is a LSE not LSD share. ATG keeps making losses. It is burning cash. Black hole is about £5.7m and getting worse due to £1.2m pa central costs (and also rent liabilities).

[arf dysg] 30/1/2012 15:38

It could be a white hole which is spewing forth cash like you would not believe.

[silkstag] 30/1/2012 15:15

Digitalis, I reopeat "what number did your 'research' conclude was the excess of creditors over debtors as of today i.e. the current black hole? Do you think more or less than £5.7m?". This is a vital factual question.

Normally AiM companies have either some cash, or at least little or no net liabilities, so the share price reflects the value of the business. Here, with massive net liabilities [c£5.7m], the value of the Tech businesses has to grow enormously just to get more than half of those liabilities paid, never mind the shares ever be worth anything.

One can have an honest debate estimating the size of the black hole, which the directors failed to mention in their RNS, but it would be dishonest to suggest this is not vital to assessing whether the creditors will ever be paid in full hence the shares ever be worth anything. I think £5.7m is far too big a hole for this distressed people business to escape from. We have seen how little Adventis received on sale of its other people businesses. I think the die was cast in 2010.

So, black hole more or less than £5.7m?

[digitalis] 27/1/2012 17:22

as i said stag,my order is IN.......you may want to discuss what you play on that harp with Mr Winks........i have....



nothing more to discuss....

[arf dysg] 27/1/2012 15:58

Has anyone got Michael Jackson's phone number? I need it as there's an ideal singing job he could do at a little olympic venue I've just heard about. I've forgotten the phone number, but I do know it begins with 666.