Atalaya Mining Share Discussion Threads

[waterloo01] 06/12/2017 10:12

Each to their own.

Copper will recover to new highs, there is no overhang, the main shareholders have agreed to fund most of the expansion (naturally negative), off takes make a lot of sense and help the funding gap, Astor will eventually get settled (probably at the same time they raise debt to fund Touro - IF it gets paid at all, and many would have been complaining if after good news of a resource upgrade they then raised at a bigger discount.

As for AL, as far as I can see and based on evidence to date he's doing an excellent job in running and growing the mine.

[777mason] 06/12/2017 09:44

hate to say it, but me think on this occasion Mr O may be right

[mronions] 06/12/2017 09:18

the only core shareholder who can buy more shares will be Orion, as they did not take their full allotment in first place. Otherwise I think core shareholders had agreement not to increase, but rather maintain and theoretically should not be acting in concert.

will be interesting to see if balance taken up, especially since stock now offered at 167p. We could see the rump being offered at this price in the market to pi . May even be on broker books, if so will have to dump

Copper move timing is terrible and should frighten investors

We are screwed vs ASTOR and management know it.

Should have brought resource upgrade out first before raising capital ... that is a no brainer. Criminal that raising funds before releasing the news they must have. Just looking after their controlling core shareholders.

Outsiders should start to see can't trust Alberto , and this is a proxy for Trafigura , and they have an awful reputation.

At current share price, debt more interesting ,,, we have to pay ASTOR anyway.

[pawsche] 06/12/2017 09:08

"Seeking Alpha" suggests that the reasons for the fall in copper appear to be a surge in LME inventories plus questions over China's ongoing requirements leading to a chunk of profit-taking and long positions being closed.

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 06/12/2017 08:01

#interesting mipp55, I've been looking for a catalyst for the drop.., another Cartel like OPEC, to collude and choke Copper supply which in turn drives the price with supply..?, but they will agree at some point on Tc/Rc costs, and the price of Copper will reverse..

I read this year that smelters were having to compete for concentrate as the supply side was getting tight, and they were having to drop their Tc/Rc prices to attract concentrate to their smelters..

Concentrate producers on the other hand of course want a free market and competition to drive smelting prices down..

My take on that scenario is the smelters all know that Copper demand is going to increase going forward and are colluding to rig the Tc/Rc prices and book in their slice of the pie and profits..

[mip55] 06/12/2017 07:14

Coppers fall apparently due to a failure to reach agreement between miners and refiners on treatment and refining charges for 2018.Copper's Art of the Dealhttps://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2017-12-06/copper-s-art-of-the-deal

[rougepierre] 05/12/2017 23:19

Give us a break Mr O...if you're so fed up why don't you sell your 100k...?

Placing at 167p shows the strength of this company...s someone else said, other companies on AIM have had to deep discount...and look at SOLG...more than twice our MCap and they had to do only a 10% Placing at a 20% discount...

The reason why the share price has fallen below 167 right now is because copper has fallen from $3.08 to $2.95 in a day...

I say again...borrowing the 39m would INSTANTLY trigger the Astor payment and utterly defeat the object...

AIMHO as usual...

[husbod] 05/12/2017 20:25

On further reflection I think I'll leave it to reba.

[husbod] 05/12/2017 20:23

Rich1e - maybe they didn't want to spend the money needed to buy them all or much more likely it was felt by the Board in consultation with the big shareholders (who are clearly the corporate equivalent to Mr James Saville so far as some here are concerned)that it was in the Company's interests to bring in some more Institutional investors.

Just hope it works as it would not be a positive if that doesn't happen. Should know by the end of the week. I would have thought, in any event, that they would have sounded out potential IIs beforehand if they have an ounce of savvy.

LLB - 9959 - totally agree.

Price of copper is an unwelcome surprise I have to say but hopefully it is only a temporary blip.

So who's going to get post no 10,000. I think we should give it to reba so that he feels that something has been achieved over these last long years. Alternatively I might just say "hello" for the next 39 posts.

[come on] 05/12/2017 18:47

Fair enough llb, I've been here through marriage, divorce, etc, etc I can wait

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 05/12/2017 18:37

#Come on, building a mining company can, and does take years, a decade, as long as it takes and we only really got started in 2016, now operational and with forward momentum we are getting into some new projects and gaining further trust and the confidence from our backers in the current BOD and strategy, our backers have once more dipped deep to enable +40/50% earnings and EURO 280M EBITDA to be unlocked from PRT.., which will in turn unlock Touro as well..

If Onions thinks it's a good idea to take on bank debt @ 8/10/12% interest when you don't need to and then give all the money to another party, and miss other value adding project opportunities whilst paying the interest, then he can think what he likes.. I disagree, and am most pleased that he's not in any way connected to finance or decisions in any capacity at Atalaya.... :o)

[come on] 05/12/2017 18:17

Didn't trafigura pay 9p old money 270 equivalent for most of their shares. Harry was quite good at raising money at a premium to the share price. I don't know what's best but how can you expect to raise cash at a massive premium when they could buy on the open market. Yes not the amount they have but few raise funds at a premium. I don't see how this plays into Astor's hands, we have won the first case why would that not change. A deal with Astor would be best for everyone. Mr O, I agree the price should be substantially higher but it isn't. I don't believe the price is being manipulated, not enough shares are being traded that's the problem. Rerating should happen but when, progress has been made massively. I'm only a novice but I'm confident for this company, but I have been for years now ?

[waterloo01] 05/12/2017 18:01

What's going on with copper $2.95.

[rich1e] 05/12/2017 17:51

MrOnions, what about this? One of the big boys takes up the extra shares to buy the whole lot, thus reducing their average. The others get an increased payout due to their extra allocation, and once again the big losers are us guys who are forced to accept 450p a share due to the dilution.

[rich1e] 05/12/2017 17:01

Onions, as its obviously such a good thing for the big boys, and they’re in it for themselves, the more you have the better off you are etc, It’s a wonder that it hasn’t occurred to any of them to take up the unallocated portion for themselves as a starting block for taking the whole lot out. But then I suppose that it’s a wonder that you haven’t sold yours.

Maybe they’re concerning themselves too much on trying to get one over on us guys.

[waterloo01] 05/12/2017 16:58

I see someone on LSE has sold out today. Good days work Mr O?

[mronions] 05/12/2017 16:09

gcpin don't be an idiot ... just because you don't like the message

The next thing any institution needs to think about, is who is going to buy this share out of core shareholders after placement, none of them . |All they do IMHO is manage the stock price so that get the new shares at an attractive price.

So down to pi to support post capital raising.

[gcpinc] 05/12/2017 15:49

Has anybody else noticed MrOnions (who also appears on LSE) that his current messages(many of them) are written so differently, I get the feeling they are written by another person !

[mronions] 05/12/2017 14:39

"SP has doubled + in 12 months"
- fine if you are short term holder
- I am not ... I have been there for years (my average is not too bad having bought a lump at 70p , but that is not the point)
- watched the manipulation and issue of equity at the bequest of Trafigura / Orion
- we are trading half the price the stock was at pre commissioning and when copper was lower and the world economy in crisis

"can't go down the bank loan route can we or it will trigger the Astor payments"
- you are now sounding as bad as the management
- we owe Astor that money as stated in the master agreement. For what ever reason we have used cunning not to pay this. We continue to use cunning techniques to avoid paying at the expense of minority shareholders : massaging our net sub 10m £ and now raising capital at a dirt cheap price diluting minorities. Interestingly all of this benefits core shareholders who continue to get their off take (and are lined up to get more) and get invited back into the capital in a consortium agreement at 50% below broker price target.

"we didn't need to discount new equity to get the placing away did we"
- where have you been ? this stock has been held back by the people in the know. It happened under Harry when raising capital , no question about it. You watch the stock you can see what has happened. This stock has been held manipulated.
- oh we did not need a discount ... the stock is being given away and minorities get diluted.
- why raise now ? why? if copper forecast is bullish and we are expecting a massive resource upgrade? why not wait until after resource upgrade ? Ridiculous. Either it is because we are looking after core shareholders (most likely) or there is no copper and we are just trying to get free money.

Alberto should go. He is not independent. He is acting for Trafigura and maybe the other core shareholders. The core shareholders are legally not acting as a block and have standstill agreements , but things don't seem to be playing out like that.

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 05/12/2017 13:47

#Onions, our share price has doubled + in 12 months, due to the excellent work of the BOD bringing the company back to life, and scaling PRT up from 5.0 to 9.5MPTA, like it or suck on it the share price is where it is, and we didn't need to discount new equity to get the placing away did we.., adding in another 5.5 MTPA plant to scale up again will maximise returns in 18 months time is the way to go.. 55-60,000 Tonnes a year is fine by me..

#Sithuk, we can't go down the bank loan route can we or it will trigger the Astor payments.., and trundling along at 9.5MTPA won't deliver the income we need to get them paid off short term, scaling up will, also adding in cash to fund Touro..

Now we have a project pipeline for growth, 18 months for PRT, and <4 years for Touro back to back..

[sithuk] 05/12/2017 13:41

Llb: I'm not sure MrO has argued against the expansion to 15mtpa. It seems he is pointing out that the money could have been borrowed from a bank without diluting existing share holders' ownership by 20%.What would a loan have cost? Any comparable recent deals?What would waiting to fund from cash flow have looked like on an NPV basis compared to diluting.The reason the discussion matters even though the deal is done is that it gives an insight into the board's strategy to return value to shareholders. And how they might fund further expansion in the future.