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[skinwalker] 24/9/2018 08:34

"Sovereignty" I spoke that word,
As if a wedding vow,
Ah, but I was much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

[dunderheed] 24/9/2018 08:19

My nana swore by the Daily Express skin.
You're obviously a posho coming from Putney bruv!

[blackgold00] 24/9/2018 08:15

skin, my lovely daughter will be there and perhaps my brother : )

[skinwalker] 24/9/2018 07:56

BG - you're posting an item from the Daily Express!
Nobody reads or believes a word written in that old rag.
Even the Labour party is waking up (belatedly).
See you at the October 20 March?

[warbaby43] 24/9/2018 07:44

Great respect blackgold for being prepared to put up post like those given the tenor and content of your post Referendum reaction. "It's the yoof, it's the yoof" as I recall.

Meanwhile, going back a few year,wasn't 2019 the year in which the fertiliser plant was supposed to start producing?

[rich2006] 23/9/2018 22:07

Blackgold
And therein lies the biggest issue.
They are trying to make it that hard to leave that we all give in and that nobody else will try to leave again.

[blackgold00] 23/9/2018 20:00

talking of lies and cunning deceits

(The vote to join Europe in 1975 was based on a lie ... but at last we’re getting our sovereignty back)



"Claims of deception and misrepresentation over Brexit negotiations are nothing new, writes Nelson McCausland

"A few months ago I had a conversation with a journalist about the possibility of a referendum on the border. I happened to mention that there had already been a referendum in the 1970s and the journalist said, “I didn’t know that”.
I went on to explain that there had been a border poll in Northern Ireland on March 8, 1973; that it was boycotted by the SDLP and Provisional Sinn Fein; that almost 99% of the voters wanted to remain in the United Kingdom; and that the Provisional IRA marked the day with four car bombs in London.
"Subsequently, nine members of the Provisional IRA from Belfast were imprisoned, including Gerry Kelly and the Price sisters, Marian and Dolours.
More recently, Brendan Hughes and Dolours Price both said that Gerry Adams had discussed the operation at an IRA meeting in Belfast.

So, the next time a Sinn Fein politician calls for a referendum on the border, just remember how the IRA marked the last one.
"However, that conversation was a reminder that many people, especially younger people who didn’t live through the events, are often unaware of key events that happened 40 or more years ago and that brings me to Brexit.

"The current process whereby the United Kingdom is extricating itself from the European Union is complex and the Government has a very difficult task. Meanwhile, the Euro-fanatics are still not reconciled to the result of the referendum and the debate still goes on in the media, with both sides of the argument accusing the other of misrepresentation and deception."

All of which reminds me of the first European referendum, back in 1975, and after 40 years forgotten by many. "Edward Heath, the Conservative prime minister, had signed the Treaty of Rome in January 1973 and, at that point, the UK joined what was then usually called the Common Market. That was done on the basis of a commitment that we would retain our national sovereignty.
Indeed, in June 1971, a White Paper had been sent to every home in the UK, promising that, “there is no question of Britain losing essential sovereignty”.
Then, in a television broadcast in January 1973 to mark the signing of the Treaty of Rome, Edward Heath went even further. He said: “There are some in this country who fear that, in going into Europe, we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified.”

Two years later, there was a referendum, on June 5, 1975, and the majority of voters supported the UK’s continued membership of the Common Market, now the European Union. But that vote was on the basis of assurances which were dishonest. Both Edward Heath and Harold Wilson knew that, in joining the Common Market, they were ceding sovereignty and joining a political project which had as its end goal the creation of a federal United States of Europe.
The preamble to the Treaty of Rome clearly stated that the objective was “ever-closer union”.
Moreover, with the passage of time and the release of Government papers under the 30-year rule, we now know that both Labour and Conservative governments had been briefed, time and time again, about the loss of national sovereignty. They were also warned that the ultimate aim was political union across Europe.Claims of deception and misrepresentation over Brexit negotiations are nothing new, writes Nelson McCausland

[blackgold00] 23/9/2018 20:00

)"We were lied to! Secret document FCO 30/1048 kept truth about EU from British for 30 years")




"A SECRET document, which remained locked away for 30 years, advised the British Government to COVER-UP the realities of EU membership so that by the time the public realised what was happening it would be too late."


"Almost all of the shocking predictions – from the loss of British sovereignty, to monetary union and the over-arching powers of European courts – have come true.
But damningly for Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath, and all those who kept quiet about the findings in the early 70s, the document, known as FCO30/1048, was locked away under Official Secrets Act rules for almost five decades.
The classified paper, dated April 1971, suggested the Government should keep the British public in the dark about what EEC membership means predicting that it would take 30 years for voters to realise what was happening by which time it would be too late to leave."

[shabbadabbadoo2] 23/9/2018 19:21

"BG - the majority were lied to and misled"

HOLD THE FRONT PAGE - Skinwalker has discovered that politicians lie.

[joestalin] 23/9/2018 12:32

As Disraeli said to Queen Victoria "We do not have friends, ma'am, we have interests".

[slepy] 23/9/2018 00:12

Don’t know how can any side claim which way is better for the UK. It seems that everyone, including our government and the EU parliament are clueless to what deal will be agreed. If any.

Saying today that nothing has changed is hugely premature as we are still part of the EU. I’m sure a lot of us will feel the consequences of leaving for good few years until the clueless government thinks out the way forward for a country with not many close friends.

As a “foreignerR21; Brexit affects me in many ways , before it even really happened. The only thing that is positive for me at the moment is my dual citizenship as I will still be “part” of the EU which leaves me some options for the future.

When it comes to AEX, I just hope for a quick spud and getting some of my money out.

[skinwalker] 22/9/2018 21:51

Don't be so sure BG - "nothing is settled until its settled right" Kipling.
Putney DH.

[blackgold00] 22/9/2018 19:19

"Unlike you, I have no respect for this majority view."

or our democratic process?

good luck with that Stop Brexit march Skin, but I don't think there's any going back now.

[skinwalker] 22/9/2018 09:42

BG - the majority were lied to and misled.
Unlike you, I have no respect for this majority view.
Being fed lies and falsehoods by a powerful group of brainless Old Etonians is not my understanding of democracy.
Stop Brexit march on October 20 - I'll be there!

[skinwalker] 22/9/2018 09:35

DH
Oh Good!
I was in a cafe opposite St Mary-le-Bow Churchyard, and couldn't help but overhear people talking about the Companies that they work for. Almost certainly working for some financial institution or other.
Bigging it up big time!
I'm from London originally, moved away late 1980s. Never experienced anything like that in my time.
Interesting how things change - London of course needs to be, and always has been dynamic.

[warbaby43] 22/9/2018 08:32

Incidentally:

Leave: 17,410,742
Remain: 16,141,241
Majority: 1,269,501 - so 7.86% more people voted to Leave rather than to Remain NOT "the less than 4%" constantly spun through the airwaves.

[dunderheed] 22/9/2018 07:59

69510. Mate I would have thought the complete opposite!

[blackgold00] 22/9/2018 01:00

skin, I'm not saying who's right or wrong, the country wanted to know what the majority thought, and the majority voted to leave. I actually voted to stay, but I have to respect the majority vote/view. its upholding and respecting, our democratic process and principles, that seems important to me.

[skinwalker] 22/9/2018 00:44

History will prove you wrong Blackgold. Very wrong.

[skinwalker] 22/9/2018 00:43

I was in the City yesterday DH. Lots there talking loudly and excitedly about not very much.
Is that your world?

[blackgold00] 21/9/2018 23:05

"the wrong decision." ?

obviously not for the majority, thoes that voted to leave in that democratic referendum. anyway skin, history will be the judge.

[skinwalker] 21/9/2018 22:44

Not angry DH. Dismayed by what is clearly, and beyond all doubt, the wrong decision.