Watchstone Share Discussion Threads

[rogthepodge] 13/7/2017 17:11

misrepresentation would normally be a contractual legal issue

fraud would normally be a criminal legal issue

what do you know about fraudulent misrepresentation? it sounds rather exotic and unusual to me

have any cases succeeded on this?

can you name some?

I am genuinely interested (I own SGH but not WTG) but if it looks like these claims are fanciful, I might buy some WTG.

[ettienne1951] 13/7/2017 02:19

ayrshire1

S&G recently filed its claim against WTG (formerly Quindell) at the High Court.

WTG will file its defence, typically within 28 days of being served, and a hearing of the parties will be heard before a judge in due course if the parties haven't settled beforehand (unlikely imo, given the extent of the damages being claimed).


rogthepodge

I've given the definition of Fraudulent Misrepresentation, which is the tort being actioned. It will be a matter for a judge to decide based on the evidence presented/contested in the Particulars of Claim.


All

WTG cannot divest of any businesses until the legal claim against it has concluded.

[funkmasterp12] 12/7/2017 23:41

"The Board has decided that all remaining businesses will now be prepared for divestment. In readiness for possible disposal, the companies will be shaped to operate more autonomously, with Watchstone taking a more strategic role rather than seeking to operate the businesses."I mean, that doesn't sound like the MO of a company with high hopes about its trading growth.

[funkmasterp12] 12/7/2017 23:34

"It's quite clearly set out on the WTG website - you just need to do some research and it is clear that the trading entities are growing substantially"Which trading entities? At the last results revenue was up a smidge but EBITDA was down considerably. They even said they're considering a fire sale of the remaining businesses!I have to disagree that this is "hugely undervalued" and that buyers will come piling into a share which basically is now only existing to serve a court case and sell everything as quickly as possible.As for the IIs, a) I don't think anyone had heard of Beach Point up until they showed interest and b) many held during the Terry era (Dobell anyone?) so I don't think that guarantees anything at all.

[cheek212] 12/7/2017 22:25

The next stage I believe is that WTG have to put forward their defence which is likely to be in early autumn I suspect, thereafter not sure of the next stage - probably viewed by a judge who decides if the case has any merits but don't quote me on that, I might be wrong! I'm not a lawyer so don't know the ins and outs of the process.

[ayrshire1] 12/7/2017 21:54

I hope so too Cheek212.

Does S&G not have a deadline to meet if they want to go to court?

[cheek212] 12/7/2017 21:44

It's quite clearly set out on the WTG website - you just need to do some research and it is clear that the trading entities are growing substantially, coupled with the cash element, the escrow and maybe one day some NIHL money albeit I don't think they will ever see any of that. One of the trading businesses that was still loss making has been sold in the past few weeks for a substantial sum further bolstering the cash pile. I believe in the bad old days IIs represented roughly about 25% of the shareholding here but now believed to be more like 60% with 51% being declared, maybe higher. IIs don't just buy for fun especially when they are buying a business that is being supposedly sued for over £600m!They've done their research and they are showing what they think about the chances of success of this claim - and once this settles the share price will rally hugely as PIs try and buy back into a hugely under valued share. Just my thoughts on the matter.

[funkmasterp12] 12/7/2017 17:51

Agree Cheek but what on earth are they actually buying? The cash pile?

[cheek212] 12/7/2017 17:17

They clearly understood their business - Andrew Grech is on record as saying so, and also on record suggesting that they also 'respectably' knew more about their business than any of the advisors that were employed to help with the 'thorough' due diligence. The IIs who continuously load up with WTG shares here clearly expect this legal action to go nowhere - they now hold over 50% of the business and that's just those who have declared holdings.

[rogthepodge] 12/7/2017 15:15

A lot of the details in the SGH claim seem to concern PSD's expected % failure rates of different classes of claim.
These should have been assessed objectively by SGH during due diligence in my opinion, when it was given access to an awful lot of files.
It is not as if it doesn't understand this business, and what failure rates are likely to be!

[ettienne1951] 12/7/2017 12:25

rogthepodge - your 3021.

The reason I felt that S&G would go to court and not negotiate "some compo" as you suggested was because (1) the seriousness of the grounds for the claim ("Fraudulent Misrepresentation" - that is where a false representation has been made knowingly, or without belief in its truth, or recklessly as to its truth) and (2) the extent of the amount of damages their solicitors advised would be claimed ("approx £600m" - suggesting the PSD had provably negligible value in reality). The evidence in the matter put together in the particulars of claim, will likely speak for itself.

[bbmsionlypostafter] 12/7/2017 08:35

Anybody know what this company actually does?

[leadersoffice] 12/7/2017 07:47

Catch a falling knife

[lydnem] 12/7/2017 07:23

Numb nuts

We all know you bought QPP at 652 and sgh at A$8

Stop lying

[rogthepodge] 11/7/2017 17:29

hard to believe though that SGH will get much back from WTG after all the extensive due diligence it professed to have done

caveat emptor and all that

but who would have thought that Maurice Blackburn would have negotiated a settlement with SGH

so who knows for sure!

[rogthepodge] 11/7/2017 17:27

I think you are confusing me with your pal Simon. I am in SGH (as you know), and Redde in this sector, Lydnem/ElCapital

you misleading troll

[lydnem] 11/7/2017 16:19

For me just three things. A forced seller, news re SGH success possibility leaking through or maybe leaking news of success for shareholders

I would say its a big holder dumping, too early for the rest.

I suppose it could be news of SFO investigation. So many things!!! Just how does Nicky numb nuts choose them!!

[funkmasterp12] 11/7/2017 15:34

(There's obviously the usual - but this is a pronounced fall even taking that into account)

[funkmasterp12] 11/7/2017 15:33

This is collapsing. Any reason for this other than SGH ?

[kemche] 11/7/2017 15:27

I am buying yet more to average down like Nick.

[bbmsionlypostafter] 11/7/2017 15:14

I wonder what steamy's secret squirrel blueshare group are making of WTG these days.

Are they still long & strong?

[owenski] 11/7/2017 07:42

Anyone who fixates on whether a word is spelt correctly or if someone projects a share going to zero pence and it didn't do that - although the wealth decimation is still plainly evident, is usually a person who doesn't want to face facts and so concentrates on the trivial instead in order to continue in a state of self denial.

This is quite common behaviour with people who are emotional instead of rational, defending obvious losing positions and or strategies, rather than face facts and dealing with some uncomfortable truths about themselves.

[lydnem] 11/7/2017 05:48

Are you drunk again numb nuts?