Reflec Share Discussion Threads

[4screws] 12/2/2013 21:26

philmac56 I must stop agreeing with you, but I do agree that this would be better

[philmac56] 12/2/2013 16:55

4 screws, a bar chart to emphasize what you suggest, growth and a divi chart, they would show a rise, for all to see

[4screws] 12/2/2013 16:46

PS I think the graphs/pie charts should be removed and we should concentrate on the growth of the company instead.

[4screws] 12/2/2013 16:45

philmac56 I agree, the company are doing well in a challenging time. Dividends are being paid and the share value, is rising, all be it not as fast as some would like. People who are not happy can sell.
As pointed out from reflec above, others read the board and squabbling e-mails about small percentages of holdings etc., which then costs the company money to put out statements is no way to have to behave. Those who are not happy with anything that is being done should go to the AGM and voice an opinion direct to those who are diligently running the company.

That is my view for what it is worth.

[johndee] 12/2/2013 16:41

I can never understand why people who hold shares in a company say negative things about the company they partly own. They have to be idiots of the highest degree. This company has gone from strength to strength in the last few years and has been shown in the strong share price and high dividend payouts. Some idiots are never satisfied.

[upthepool] 12/2/2013 16:39

ok, REF board has spoken - it is now time for you picturehappy (or any of your "mates") to put up or shut up.

No more hiding behind the legal excuse..if the REF board can do it, so can you....what say you in response.

What are your issues, what has REF done and what are you hoping to achieve.

And no phone calls please, if you can't say it on here, one must draw their own conclusions.

Only then, when we have both sides, can we understand and debate.

[philmac56] 12/2/2013 15:17

so, we had an answer, so hopefully it will be put to bed and no more sareholder money will be wasted on legal advice.

[darias] 12/2/2013 14:49

Seems to answer any concerns that I might have had.

[clangor2] 12/2/2013 14:19

The response from the Bod is much as was anticipated ; they've been taking advice on every move they've made which, to a simpleton like me, means this long, drawn out vendetta is simply hitting shareholders in the pocket at the behest of one whingeing shareholder. Even if, heaven forebid, this 'Action Group' miraculously won their case (whatever that is !) in court, the costs awarded would end up with REF's solicitor/financial advisors footing the bill for providing incorrect information but the company all-the-while is footing the 'advice' bill.

Not only did Philmiboots 'accidentally' get his original pie chart figures wrong (and even after he quietly altered them they're still incorrect - 'management' control 45.03 % not 46.01 %) - his post re the EBT's Trustees was way off the mark as well :- 'The EBT is not controlled by the Board of Directors. The Trustees are an independent body consisting of a corporate solicitor, an employee and a non-executive director'. Take the bones out of that !

[reflecplc] 12/2/2013 12:32

Dear Shareholders,

Once again we are wasting valuable resource, time and money responding to spurious and inaccurate comments on the ADVFN bulletin board. Your Board cannot understand why the shareholding of the Directors and the EBT is now, or ever was, a matter for debate and concern.

The current shareholdings of the Board were announced in the 2010 Report and Accounts, which were released in May 2010. The shareholdings were; T M Robinson 12.83%: P W Holdcroft 11.91%: J Kinder 0.5%: Brian Sagar 1.2%: Totalling 26.44%. It was, also, clearly stated in the 2010 Report and Accounts that a placing took place in the previous financial year; in accordance with the previous year's Resolutions, and that the Directors and staff committed themselves to the Company by taking part in this placing. This placing was done with professional advice at every stage and with the blessing of key independent shareholders. The placing was necessary because of the cash situation in your company at the time, when the bank had stipulated that our overdraft was to be reduced, large creditors had to be paid and the company needed a cash flow investment.

The only change in the current Board of Directors shareholding is that TM Robinson now holds 13.9%: M Cope 1% and B Sagar retired in 2011. The total Board of Directors shareholding is now therefore 27.3%. Mr Robinson's shareholding increased firstly because he acquired shares from a director who retired in December 2009 and the shares were purchased at the then market price. Mr Robinson also purchased 149 shares through the JP Jenkins' Matched Bargain Service at the market price in July 2011, which was announced at the time; a purchase that could have been made by any shareholder.

It was also clearly stated in the 2010 Report and Accounts that there was an additional Resolution at the request of a group of shareholders to consolidate the shares on a 1000:1 basis. The Directors did not vote on this Resolution, but the Resolution was passed. As a result of the consolidation the fraction shares had to be purchased, and, because the company cannot hold treasury shares and needs a Special Resolution to cancel any share; which was not possible as the final details of the consolidation could not be determined prior to the consolidation taking place, the shares were purchased by the EBT which was the practical option. This again was done with full professional advice.

This shareholding of 15.33% was declared and is clearly shown in the 2011 Report and Accounts which were released in April 2011 and announced on 30th July 2010.

The EBT in following its strategy to generate a market, repay its loan and incentivise employees has also just purchased 350 additional shares which takes its shareholding to 17.72%. Your Board of Directors believe this is a positive investment. The strategy of the EBT has recently been publicised.

The EBT is not controlled by the Board of Directors. The Trustees are an independent body consisting of a corporate solicitor, an employee and a non-executive director.

The Board would also like to point out that in the February 2012 Report and Accounts we noted:
"There is little doubt that delisting contributed significantly to the ability of the company to recover from an acutely challenging financial situation. Consequently, we all have to accept the regime of a private company in which it is more difficult to make an active market in shares for those wishing to buy or sell.

Whilst accepting both the benefits and limitations of a private company, the Board will work diligently to:
- Provide facilities for investors to buy and sell shares in Reflec plc.
- Put the company in a position to enable there to be dividend income and capital growth.
- Investigate all future development and other options."

The EBT is part of such facilities.

The Board believe that we are achieving this. A shareholder who wished to sell a significant number of shares has been able to do so. The EBT has helped to make a market for the shares. This is a positive move for shareholders.

We also note that it is suggested that shareholders cannot get in touch with Directors. If you want to contact a director, then please telephone the office on the number below and we will always respond.

We are also concerned that the postings will harm the company beyond repair. It has to be remembered that anyone can read these postings, including suppliers and customers. It is clear that from 2009 your company has become profitable in one of the worst economic times in recent history and as a result we have paid dividends for the first time in the company's 15 year history. This has resulted in a share price increase from £50.00 to £166.50 per share. Our strategic customers and partners now have faith in our business; however this faith will be severely eroded if these spurious and damaging accusations continue.

The Board of Directors would like all shareholders to attend a meeting which will immediately precede the AGM; we have already announced that this will be on the 24th May 2013. There will be an open forum at which the Board will answer any questions and will have a total open book policy, so you will see for yourselves that we have done everything in our power in the interests of the shareholders and the Company.

Yours truly,
Board of Directors
Reflec PLC

Telephone: [phone]

[man1] 12/2/2013 10:11

Hi All ,
its seems this board is as busy now as when listed. Its nice to see posts from the old reflecsag forum.


UTP / philmiboots / fft / clangor2 nice to see you all still around..

Like you UPT i am waiting t hear both sides of the argument to get an insight into what is going on .

I am disappointed though that after the old SAG got rid of the old chairman and changed the boards wway of thinking we seem to have come on leaps and bounds , even with the behind the scenes confrontations . I just wonder where we wud be if Tim n co could just concentrate 100% on growing the business...

[clangor2] 11/2/2013 22:10

scalie: You stopped two posts short :-


picturehappy 11 Feb'13 - 17:07 - 1079 of 1089

Hi Clangor2,

The combined share-ownership of the Directors including the EBT is 6,718 so we are not a million miles apart.

You indicate that there is only one person involved within the Reflec Plc shareholder action group, in fact there are over 45 individuals involved.

The group of like-minded people have been advised that our case is Sub judice and any reference or claims made in this medium may be construed as prejudicial and this is the reason we are constrained with what we say.

We would like to assure you that we are acting proportionately for the benefit of all non-management shareholders.

The pie charts posted by Philmiboots have certainly had an impact on people's mindset and they really do graphically depict the situation.

Cheers,
Nick

[scalie] 11/2/2013 21:19

clangor2 re post 1081 you mention a group of 45 ...where does this number come from please....or have i just not gone back far enough in the posts
Regards,Scalie

[clangor2] 11/2/2013 20:44

For someone who wasn't at last year's AGM and isn't John Heaton's mouthpiece (!), this is quite a detailed resume of events which took place there:


picturehappy 25 May'12 - 17:18 - 896 of 1087

In today's A.G.M. all resolutions were duly passed with an average of 96%. Those present were Tim Robinson, Paul Holdcroft, John Kinder & Martin Cope (All from Reflec Plc).
Two Howard Worth representatives (Accountants) and surprisingly two senior corporate lawyers from D.W.F., also a representative from ComputerShare.

John Heaton was present along with his corporate lawyer and five other individuals belonging to the Heaton group. No other Reflec Plc shareholders were present. The meeting opened by Tim Robinson explaining that yesterday the Reflec Plc share price had increased by £50.00 per share. It was stated that the new Litering & Controller would be on sale from July onwards and that the Company plan their own ecommerce website to assist in selling the new innovative, exciting technology for both the video and still photography market. It was acknowledged by the Reflec Plc Board that the instigator of a 6 page free editorial on Reflecmedia in the Image Maker magazine was instigated by Howard Pearson. When it was stated that Howard had not even received a word of thanks from the Company for his efforts and achievements, the Board looked extremely embarrassed and apologised to Howard in open forum. Howard did incur costs in securing this article and it will be interesting to see if the Company contact him with a view to reimburse his expenses.

The Heaton lawyer requested in open forum that next year's A.G.M. is to commence at 2pm in a location close to fast rail network connections, this was noted by the Directors and we have little doubt that next year our request will be adhered to.

The dividend payment was duly passed, unfortunately no date was given as to when the cheques will be put in the post. There were no potentially embarrassing questions put to the Board. The meeting lasted approximately fifty minutes. The Heaton shareholders left immediately after the meeting however their lawyer stayed for a further fifteen minutes and talked to the Reflec Plc lawyers over matters that need resolving.

About three nights ago "Philmiboots" posted on this forum a Youtube video link that described and demonstrated the new Litering & Controller. I watched it twice and the Company really do seem to have hit on something bigtime. I suggest that the person who pushed the price up by £50.00 yesterday must of watched the video, but the bizarre situation is when you click on "Philmiboots" video link the video does not play anymore.

All in all a very good week for the rank and file shareholders of Reflec Plc.

All the best, hope this has been useful.

Nick

I wonder how that was achieved ? No answer to my question regarding philmiboots and the 'Action Group' either. Presumably we can come to our own conclusion.

[upthepool] 11/2/2013 20:22

Quote #1 - "We would like to assure you that we are acting proportionately for the benefit of all non-management shareholders".

Quote #2 - "To clear up a point we are not claiming to represent everyone"

Erm....

And still no explanation of the actions you are taking and, more importantly, why.

Tick, tock, credibility clock.

You need to sort him out, he's not making you look good here. A minority group arrogantly claiming to act on behalf all shareholders. Sucking money out of a company that is just turning itself round (so the accounts say) for whatever your personal agenda is. That, in a nutshell is what picturehappy has said....oh, and the bit about hiding behind lawyers when he is asked to explain himself rather than post little snide remarks.

Poor.

[philmac56] 11/2/2013 20:13

so the 45 of you have agreed, as upthepool suggests, to "suck shareholder money by possible litigation!!!!" to meet your ends & not the majority of shareholders!!!

[philmac56] 11/2/2013 20:01

upthepool

i also agree with your post, but i did not want to be long winded, so to speak

[philmac56] 11/2/2013 18:59

Is the suggestion here, that the shares not held by reflec board & ebt e.g by the shareholders amounts to 45 individuals!!!!

If so, i am indeed one individual, i have shares in REFLEC PLC, alas i know nothing about the Reflec Plc shareholder action group, so i hope i am not counted in the 45 individuals!!!

Is it a secret sect!!!! this action group!!!!!!

[clangor2] 11/2/2013 18:04

I note the use of the Royal 'we' in your last post ph ..... how can 'we' be involved in the Reflec Shareholder Action Group when 'we' aren't even a shareholder. Does that infer that there are other non-shareholders in the group of 45 who are also 'acting proportionately for the benefit of all non-management shareholders' (not sure I know what that actually means). You've already told us that you're not John Heaton's mouthpiece and act independently so how come you managed to be in attendance at last year's AGM ?

If you really do 'champion justice for the minority and non-management shareholders', visit the Metnor thread (a company I know from years back when they were doing well and still sentimentally look-up occasionally). Unlike with REF where the company has recovered rather well, there the company appears to have gone in reverse and now, with better times on the horizon, the majority shareholder has shat on the minority investors from a great height; they could certainly do with your support/guidance.

edit: I've just noticed that philmiboots has changed his pie chart without the fanfare this time now that it shows that the 'management' no longer have a majority holding. Is he a member of your group perchance ?

[upthepool] 11/2/2013 17:07

I await the company response to all this with mounting interest.

I also await picturehappy's response to the request to explain himself because I believe the post above from the REF board means that to remain credible he needs to spell out his concerns.

That will at least then give us "both sides" and allow us to make a judgement - as the majority on here are obviously not privvy to all / most of / any of these ongoing issues.

I need to go and get the splinters out of my @rse now - note to self, I need to sand the top of the fence down :-)

[clangor2] 11/2/2013 15:48

"..... as you will be aware we need to pass this response via our solicitors before posting."

Those few words should silence a few doubting Thomas' on this thread. Shareholders may have forgotten the contretemps man1 had with the board last year but, just dealing with that misunderstanding, the directors sort advice from their solicitors; their action made me revise the previous suspicions I held regarding their motives. I'm sure every action they take these days is only after legal or brokers' advice.

Unfortunately, solicitors' advice does not come cheap and the expense comes out of the company's (read shareholders) profit each time. The apparent ongoing vendetta that one shareholder - 'he wanted his day in court !!!' - is pursuing is really where shareholders should be venting their angst. That shareholder should lay his cards on the table for all shareholders to see instead of waging a secretive, and no doubt expensive for shareholders, war behind their backs.

[reflecplc] 11/2/2013 15:08

Dear Shareholders

The Board are aware of the comments and questions placed on this bulletin board over the past few days.

We are currently drafting a response to answer these, however as you will be aware we need to pass this response via our solicitors before posting.

I trust that you bear with us until we can provide an accurate and succinct response.

Board of Directors
Reflec PLC