Merrill Lynch New Energy Tech Share Discussion Threads

[m4ybe] 03/1/2008 14:31

Boats keep running into sandbanks in the North Sea and English Channel, so I presume there is scope for wind generator/lighthouse combos out there (it used to be land long ago).

[m4ybe] 03/1/2008 14:29

ZEN (Zenergy) have superconducting materials that claim to reduce the cost of wind power generation by 25%. That share price almost tripled last year so I presume they are onto something.

[hoggetwood] 03/1/2008 13:57

Praipus
Great article. Thank you. Very good to have actual wind and solar figures for EU countries. They certainly make the point that, at the present time, wind is far bigger than solar. It's my belief, though, that solar will overtake wind in a few year's time. I say this because (a) the production costs per megawatt for solar are falling, as the hi-tech solid-state technology is developed, whereas the 'moving parts' technology of wind turbines will always be expensive, (b) the issue of where to put new wind turbines is only going to get worse the more turbines there are, but roof-areas have hardly begun to be exploited for solar.

[praipus] 03/1/2008 13:04

Thanks Hoggetwood


Interesting to compare MW from Wind and MW from PV to support what I was trying to communicate above.

[praipus] 03/1/2008 12:34

Hoggetwood,

Please can you post a link to info about the high power arrays you talk of?

One of MNE's holdings (6,060 photovoltaic solar cells to make 1 MW)


Airtricity have permission to build a 44 MW wind farm in Wales and are preffered bidder for another 100 MW wind farm. Ecofin ECWC have a 16% holding.

[cyberbub] 03/1/2008 11:00

the sudden jump is very welcome! presumably because the sort of money that invests in medium/long term funds (although I appreciate that ETFs are traded like normal shares) has a couple of breakpoints in the year, such as Jan 1 and April 6, when money suddenly becomes available to invest in undervalued funds.

[hoggetwood] 03/1/2008 10:49

Praipus (350)
A single solar cell produces less than a volt. The current it will supply depends on its size. But the cells are almost always connected in arrays, making possible a whole range of voltages and available currents. You multiply the voltage by the current to get the power output. We are most familiar with low power arrays - say 20 W (20 watt) used, for example, for battery charging, but in Germany they have arrays producing 10 MW (10 million watt), and arrays producing more than 100 MW are being built in Australia and the States. Such large power arrays are used to feed energy into the grid. [You need electronic devices (invertors etc.) to convert the d.c. to a.c. and to adjust voltages. This stuff is available.] To put these figures in context, 2000 MW is a typical power output from a traditional fossil fuel burning power station. But - and here's the astounding figure - all the wind turbines in Wales put together produce less than 50 MW. Compare the amount of controversy per megawatt caused by wind turbines and by solar photovoltaic panels - if integrated into roofs (admittedly many, many roofs).

[watwungyi] 02/1/2008 17:47

what a rise!

[praipus] 02/1/2008 15:53

My pleasure. It has also just occurred to me that some of the stockbrokers who advertise on ADVFN even offer a cash lump sum for transfering Maxi ISA's so may take some of the pain out of the transfer if you went that route.

Also by holding ECWC in certificated format when they come to wind-up 2009 Mrs Spangle could elect fot them to convert to ECWO shares thus not having a capital gain and enjoy a handsome income from the new ECWO shares.

Anyway....sorry to all MNE holders for being semi off topic.

[spangle93] 02/1/2008 15:46

Praipus - well, yes I do think the investments should exceed CGT limit over time, that's AFAIIA the main reason for getting an ISA. There's no tapering after this year either, so it doesn't matter how long it takes to get there!

Also, the management fee for MNE is 1%, + VAT, plus a performance bonus (+VAT), up to 1.5%, so I think running costs are essentially the same (although in a carp year, the UT running costs will still be 1.5%)

But I do appreciate the thrust of your comments, and your suggestions, and will mull over the best course of action to take.

Thanks again

[praipus] 02/1/2008 15:26

Going back a step the point of having money in a Maxi ISA is that you think you are going to exceed £9,000 capital gain with ease.....if not no point whatever in having it.

UT's I dont know at all. But my reading of them is that they make their money by charging you a management fee (probably in excess of 1.5%) and are unlikely to be investing on their own account for your benenfit. (Inflation at 3% means its got to make over 4.5% just to stand still !!!!)

Ecofin and Utilico have intelligent experienced directors who have bucket loads of their own money in the IT's concerned and are in effect looking after your interests by Proxy.

It may be better to get the money out of the UT and buy ECWC (for example) in certificated form. Once the gain appears get close to £9,000 transfer the holding to a nominee account sell £7,000 (or whatever the prevailing MAXI ISA allowance is) and put that in the MAXI ISA.

Lastly if my ramblings fall on stony ground it may be worth looking at the Annual Reports for Ecofin and MNE and Utilico to assertain who the Substancial Shareholders are to see if any of them are Unit Trust Managers.

[spangle93] 02/1/2008 14:22

Praipus - that would indeed be the ideal route, were we starting from scratch. But the money is already sitting as cash in a Fund supermarket, which only allows the purchase of UT's. So to start a maxi-ISA, we'd have to go through the rigmarole of proving who Mrs Spangle was with a new provider, and from an admin perspective, I didn't really want to end up with another separate account to manage. I was just surprised that there's no UT with the same portfolio of assets

(PS, my understanding is that if there's a downturn in 2008, a UT is likely to fall less than a parallel IT. But that may just be hogwash spun by the UT providers!)

[praipus] 02/1/2008 13:57

Hi Spangle93 for clarity what is the attraction of a Unit Trust to you?

Is there anything wrong with opening a self managed Maxi ISA in Mrs Spangle's name and populating it with ECWC and MNE for example?

[spangle93] 02/1/2008 13:34

Happy new year to all!

Praipus and other helpful folk, can I ask for help?

Mrs Spangle, who's the green ideallist (as opposed to me who's the green investor) has some cash in an ISA, but it's held in a fund supermarket, so realistically, unless I transfer it to another ISA provider and set up an account for her there, I have to find a unit trust that meets her needs. But the areas she wants to invest in are those covered by IEM, ECWC, and MNE, which are IT's.

We did take out a IEM unit trust last year, but it involved money changing about 4 currencies (though a UK IFA, it's an Irish fund with an American parent based in Luxembourg or something), so literally it took a month from us writing a cheque to them buying units.

We've found the Neptune Green Planet Fund, Schroder Climate Change, Jupiter Ecology and Environmental, and Henderson Industries of the Future, which are sort of in the right direction, but not really aligned with the ITs.

Can anyone suggest a UT that we may have overlooked, that would parallel the sectors that MNE and others are in?

[praipus] 02/1/2008 12:16

HoggetWood be cautious with Solar, I understand it develops high voltage but low current not much use for driving a lorry or a car around for example. Hydro electric or Wind power is better....not that solar should be overlooked it has many uses. But isnt going to get the vast global capital flow's that hydroelectric and wind power will IMHO.....do look at ECWC who stand to benefit and have been benefitting from renewabled development.

[mad jack mcmad] 02/1/2008 12:02

Nice move today - onwards and upwards. Happy 2008, all.

[hoggetwood] 01/1/2008 18:40

Solar, has, imho, the greatest potential. The raw materials for photovoltaic panels are cheap, the technology unobtrusive, and the power output capabilities immense. Correction welcome, but the figure that sticks in my mind is that if all roofs in the uk were covered with photovoltaic panels (preferably integrated into the roof tiles themselves), then the uk's energy needs would be covered three times over. [What happens at night is, of course, a problem.] Manufacturings costs are, though, the main obstacle at the moment, but these will come down and down.

[asparks] 01/1/2008 14:44

rainydays. I disagree. 08 wil be solar too. see ROMAG

[hoggetwood] 31/12/2007 12:59

Sorry it hasn't met your target, rd,but at least share price hasn't fallen! Many private investors will probably have deferred buying until the new year. And talking of New Year: all best wishes for it.

[hoggetwood] 31/12/2007 10:08

Well, there's a thin stream of small buys and only one modest sell. Can't see any connection between the advertised 0.75p drop and the trades shown on the advfn free streaming. No doubt anomalies will have disappeared by the end of the day, i.e. by about half an hour after the end of trading. In any case, I'm sure we'll be rewarded for patience in the longer term, for the reasons you mention.

[hoggetwood] 30/12/2007 23:51

Touché! But Saturn shouldn't have so many rings. It's ostentatious vulgarity.