Inditherm Share Discussion Threads

[adamb1978] 25/9/2014 13:51

Glad I sold this a few months ago - never met the management team but their investor communication makes them come across (to me at least) as people who are running the business for academic interest rather than with teh aim of generating shareholder value. They need to get the turnover to £3m levels rather than the £2m run-rate which its at and the greater emphasis on the distribution business is just going to lower margins and take it longer to get to break-even.

Having cash equivalent to 3 years of current burn-levels is all very well and good but you need to be doing something to the business in that time. Personally I think they should try to find a buyer for the company - at least a buyer could strip out a lot of overheads, management costs and be able to see a route to profitabilty and therefore pay a price for the company. Whether management would do themselves out of a job though is often questionnable...

[hastings] 25/9/2014 09:21

Not a holder here and never have been despite running an eye over it.As regards David, I think it is fair to look at things as a whole, not in isolation. To counter the negativity one could mention Crawshaw, which David homed in on at just a few pence I believe. As for his events, a great opportunity for retail investors to meet and hear the company's in action, with a platform to ask questions. At the end of the day though we all make our choices and decide whether to invest or not.

[spud] 25/9/2014 09:19

Yup, I think all those complaining should imo take responsibility for their own investment decisions. I don't recall David putting a gun to your heads.If the price had gone the other way, I suspect self congratulation would have been prevalent here..spud

[cockerhoop] 25/9/2014 09:05

Yasx,

You really need to take responsibility for your own actions. You describe taking a 'punt' which suggests that you didn't carry out significant due diligence and then like the sad mug punter in the bookies start blaming everyone else for your loss.

David is certainly not a pump and dump merchant and certainly still held 3.13% of the company on 30/07/14 (date edited cheers Pugugly).

[playful] 25/9/2014 09:04

I hold the view Mark Abrahams has the strength to turn things around here so let us wait and see what strategic options they have in mind.

[sundance 13] 25/9/2014 08:35

Hi yasx, that's one potential explanation, he was certainly plugging it at 6p+ last year over on motley fool and it did shortly afterwards spike up above 10p. If he wanted to he could use these spikes to his advantage, however we don't have any evidence that's the case?he does have a good record overall and does arrange small investor events which I'm sure take up a considerable amount of his time and effort, for no direct financial gain. This would for me counter the more 'Machiavellian' explanation you've provided.

[yasx] 25/9/2014 08:19

Battlebus,

If he goes all out promoting the stock to a bunch of deluded nuts who seek guidance from CEO's (who are bound to be optimistic irrespective of the underlying merits) and then disappears, it likely follows that 'promoter' will have sold into strength. I am not certain, merely assume that to be the case.

[battlebus2] 25/9/2014 08:11

Again i say this is one share of many that have outperformed so your taking the story of Inditherm way out of context in relation to the investor events, incidently i've never been fortunate to attend one but have still benefitted from the feedback of attendees. No idea if Davidosh is still holding these or not but that's still his business not mine.

[cockerhoop] 25/9/2014 08:11

Interesting last line of the Outlook Statement!

[yasx] 25/9/2014 08:09

Meanwhile, the price falls as anticipated.....

I thought these a punt at 6p, but given the failure today there is no chance of this ever demonstrating sustained profitability, and it must therefore be wound up, cash returned and product IP/assets sold.

[yasx] 25/9/2014 08:06

Battlebus,

I have been furnished a copy of some of his comments relating to Inditherm - needless to point out, some of the forecasts to which he alluded were utterly baseless and entirely beyond the realms of both possibility and probability. So, it would not surprise me that he will have moved on a year ago, leaving novice punters and his deluded followers to carry the parcel.

I ask again - what motive is there to spend a disproportionate amount of his time (according to what I understand) to arrange these fairly spurious events, which appear to me nothing more than glossy promotional affairs?

[battlebus2] 25/9/2014 08:02

I think your way off the mark there yasx as the man in question bought when these were under 3p and clearly undervalued at that time as did myself. Not a holder myself selling out at 10p. You can't be an investor and keep a 100% record all the time.

[yasx] 25/9/2014 07:55

Revenues down, margins down, cash down, losses increased and outlook remains poor.
Hardly comforting for holders....

Incidentally, and for the benefit of novice punters, I understand a chap from another site has been plugging these to his readers. He, apparently, tends to arrange meetings with Exec Directors of small tiddlers, and given the illiquidity and the fact the scale of his events has apparently started to amplify, the price reacts, as it did here over the past year or so. Anyone buying these spikes ought to have his head examined.

I am not certain what benefit stimulates that chap, but in generic terms it is not inconceivable that one might buy a holding, arrange an event, talk it up an then sell into the spike. I am not saying that is what has happened here, but, caveat emptor.

[yasx] 25/8/2014 14:14

All,

I think some of the recent developments, especially in terms of new or reinforced distributor networks have been overlooked.

In Scotland, Iona Surgical (a very small outfit, but footprint in Scotland nonetheless) has taken to trying to penetrate the Scottish market in line with the NHS framework agreement for Scotland with the introduction of the perioperative patient warming systems. Apparently this is being actively promoted in this region and the representatives have undertaken the relevant training provided by Inditherm.

Separately, ORS have seemingly already made good progress in Northern Ireland and the Inditherm offering is now being sold in the wider region. Aa quick glance at this outfit suggests they have credible partners for many products in the medical sector, and this experience ought to help in translating interest to sales.

Finally, and perhaps most significantly, a pathway has been secured to drive the entire range in to the potentially very significant Mexican healthcare system, and approval by the Mexican equivalent of the MHRA ought to be secured in the near term. This could be a very lucrative growth area.

I know cynics might argue that this is all at a very nascent stage, and that ultimately what matters is what contribution is delivered to the bottom line, but the fact is that given the very low market capitalisation any increase in revenues and profitability will lead to a rapid improvement in the price of the shares. Certainly, these networks suggest management are not resting on their laurels, and given the significant cash cushion, the shares could well move higher if any of these arrangements prove fruitful. Then we have the news that several LifeStart systems have been used in the US for purposes of a clinical trial, the outcome of which , if favourable could open new leads.

I think the Board ought to formally announce some of these initiatives, since although not yet necessarily overly significant in any material sense, they do raise awareness and interest in the company.

[davidosh] 22/7/2014 13:18

The company seem to be presenting at far more events and conferences that they have in previous years too...

hxxp://www.inditherm.co.uk/news-events/forthcoming-events/

[fugwit] 22/7/2014 11:57

Some terrific news:

and decent coverage:

brief thoughts on tmf.

[shanklin] 07/7/2014 14:12

fugwit

Thank you for your reply.

I see REFS has no forecasts but Sharelockholmes is shown a PBT of £0.2m for 2014 and £0.4m for 2015. I have no idea where these numbers came from.

Regards, Martin

[fugwit] 07/7/2014 13:08

Hello Martin,

Tricky Question, firstly I see no forecast for 2014 so would be interested in where you took that figure from.

That aside there was the good old '....we anticipate income to be biased towards the second half' in the prelim outlook which given any other firm I would expect to lead to a FY PW, but IDM do seem to have a habit of presenting a glass half empty view of things. Also we know 2013 Rev was bouyed by slippage out of 2012 so I am expecting less than 23% topline growth this year. I do expect greater than 20% export growth over the next few years with the caveat that it may be run rate growth by year end and not full year. Also I particularly like the managed service element that is being introduced, not least as it should help smooth rev lumpiness but because the NHS can claim VAT back on this basis.

Clear as mud then.

Honestly I do not know, I am prepared to wait a while longer as I am happy with the post 'industrial' focus and balance sheet strength if it doesn't happen this year. I would not be surprised however to see the for sale sign to go up eventually if management are not able to drive the firm to profit. I believe the IP here is valuable and there would be suitors. If that were to happen it would be a shame but I am reasonably confident it would happen at a price considerably north of here. I have been happy to add at recent levels but am also prepared for a long wait if needs be.

Long and short; I have no idea but my fingers are crossed.

Edit: sorry about the messing around with figures, advfn does not seem to like the greater than less than symbols and deletes the content between them.

[davidosh] 07/7/2014 13:06

These were the highlights for 2013....

Highlights·

Turnover for the year increased by 23% to £2,062k (2012: £1,673k)·

Gross profit rose 21% to £1,163k (2012: £960k) reflecting sustained operating margins·

Post-tax loss reduced to £77k (2012: £164k)·

Cash inflow for the year £57k (2012: outflow £50k) with year end cash and cash equivalents standing at £1,635k (2012: £1,578k) reflecting improved trading, tight control of working capital and significant cash flow benefit from long-term support contract·

Successful launch as distributor for ATOM product ranges in the UK market resulted in an 11% contribution to sales revenues·

Industrial business orders for standard products grew by over 64% compared to 2012

- - - - -

Now we know they have difficulty getting traction in the NHS but just imagine if that growth can be followed through in 2014 and I think you can see how a 200k profit is possible as margins are very good and 23% added turnover is nearly £2.5m. All these added distribution and sales channels are good and add very little to costs.

[shanklin] 07/7/2014 10:26

Hi fugwit

How likely to you think it is that IDM will deliver the 2014 forecast PBT of £0.2m please?

Thank you, Martin

[fugwit] 07/7/2014 10:13

More good developments on the export front. It is good to see the firm getting to grips with their partner network and adding new blood. Finding a Mexican partner is extremely encouraging and bodes well for further tie ups post the FIME event next month in Miami.

hxxp://www.inditherm.co.uk/inditherm-appoint-new-international-distributors/