Caledonia Investments Share Discussion Threads

[m.t.glass] 15/7/2002 13:00

Yep. CeLine DioN going down nicely today.. :o)

[big vern] 12/7/2002 15:37

I'd be carefull shorting this one - it could bounce north at 750 and its not in a general long term down trend

DYOR
VERN

[tricky] 12/7/2002 14:38

Yesterday alone the falls in Close Bros (down 52.5p) and Friends Ivory and Sime (down 16p) accounted for a drop in Calledonia's investments of around £15m. The question is, will Caledonia's share price reflect the fall in value?

[nirvs] 11/7/2002 00:45

Already Short from 800p. It looks ripe for a fall at least to the Sept low. We need some selling at 760p.

The 20 dma looks a good one to follow on the way down

[tricky] 11/7/2002 00:17

I have just had a brief flick through the annual report to end 03/02, it is worth a read if only for entertainment alone. I love phrases like "The profit & Loss... shows significantly lower numbers...they are not the principal financial yard stick by which we seek to measure ourselves" If it is then the value of their investments "by which they seek to measure themselves" they are in trouble, on the listed investments alone those values have diminshed by at least £40m since the end of March! They have actually increased their holding in RAT although they don't disclose by how much, that along with their 18.6% holding in Close Bros have performed poorly.

They are an illiquid stock and the share price therefore may not react as it should (imho) but it will surely retest last September's low.

[m.t.glass] 26/6/2002 17:29

alexx - Caledonia owns 12% of RAT and 6% of FIS.

Also has holdings in other funds Amerindo, Polar Tech, Br.Empire Secs(19%), and others. Overall a strange portfolio - includes 49% of Bristow Helicopters, and subsidiaries The Sloane Club (100%), Sterling Industries (100%), Edinburgh Crystal (93%). Also holdings in Close Bros (19%). Radio Investments (39%). Sun Intl Hotels/Casinos (21%). All listed within the link above and mostly described as poorly!

I'll leave it to someone with patience to list them all in scale :o)

[alexx] 25/6/2002 07:56

MTG - do you know how much the RAT exposure is

[m.t.glass] 25/6/2002 00:27

I guess holders who thought "Oh dear" when they saw the 28/5 results were hoping nobody else would notice until after the dividend qualification date next week. Sorry guys! Anyway, the share price has already declined since then by more than the divi is worth - so nothing gained by holding..

[m.t.glass] 25/6/2002 00:16

While looking at which other fund managers hold an interest in Rathbones, I see Caledonia Investments do. They also own a chunk of FIS which has done them some harm. These (negative) extracts are from their 28/05 results statement.



"..Caledonia Investments PLC said it has appointed Tim Ingram,
until recently a main board director of Abbey National PLC, as the company's new
chief executive with effect from June 10...".

"...the group reported a drop in profit before tax to 8.2 mln stg from 55.7 mln a
year earlier. It incurred a trading loss for the year of 1.3 mln stg, compared
with a profit of 9.7 mln. Turnover was down at 114.1 mln stg from 135.2 mln a
year earlier...."

"...The profit and loss account shows significantly lower numbers than in the
previous year, although it is not the principal financial yardstick by which
Caledonia seeks to measure itself. Earnings per share decreased from 53.2 pence
to 3.8 pence and adjusted earnings per share moved from 49.6 pence to 18.6
pence.
Results from subsidiaries, in difficult economic circumstances, fell by £7.5m to
£2.2m before a £3.5m write-off of goodwill relating to Sterling Industries. An
overall addition of £8.5m in interest payable included £4m relating to
Caledonia's associates. Furthermore Caledonia's share of results from associate
companies fell by £14m due largely to the absence of the exceptional
market-making profits previously earned by Close Brothers..."
Profit before taxation for the year to 31 March 2002 totalled £8.2m, compared
with £55.7m reported last year..."

"...Total operating profit of £26.1m for the year to 31 March 2002 decreased by 51% compared with last year's figure of £53.5m.

A number of factors contributed to a decrease in trading results from a £9.7m
profit last year to a £1.3m loss this year. Sterling Industries reported a loss
of £0.4m, compared with a profit of £1.5m last year and, in addition, £3.5m of
capitalised goodwill was written off. Amber recorded profits of £1.6m, down
£0.4m from last year, Edinburgh Crystal reported a loss of £0.8m compared with
£0.6m last year and The Sloane Club dipped from £2.1m last year to £1.7m..."



My extracts above are all negative ones (no surprise there then). For a possibly fairer view see the full report at


Quotes beyond 2 July allow for a 17.2p divi. (xd reportedly 3 July)

I opened a small downbet this morning.

[dodddy] 24/6/2002 14:27

sold a few today nice one mtg

[matthewa] 24/6/2002 13:33

Short CLDN @ 7.95 - Cheers MT It cross holdings will be its downfall ( as with other trusts). RAT looking lousy today as well.

[alexx] 24/6/2002 10:41

Decided to join you on this, short 790 ( DEC bet )

Always makes me laugh when they congratulate themselves on outperforming the market but making a loss ( we, well me anyway, would be forced to pack it all in and go and get a job on that performance ), they could do better sacking everybody and putting the money in a bank

[m.t.glass] 24/6/2002 10:20

I guess existing holders who thought "Oh dear" when they saw the May 28 results were hoping that nobody else notices while they quietly hang on to qualify for their divi.

Sorry guys! Mind you, the share price fall since then has cost holders more than the divi already.

[m.t.glass] 24/6/2002 10:03

While looking at which other fund managers hold an interest in Rathbones, I see Caledonia Investments do. They also own a chunk of FIS which has done them some harm. These (negative) extracts are from their 28/05 results statement.



"..Caledonia Investments PLC said it has appointed Tim Ingram,
until recently a main board director of Abbey National PLC, as the company's new
chief executive with effect from June 10...". (Isn't that a negative?:o)

"...the group reported a drop in profit before tax to 8.2 mln stg from 55.7 mln a
year earlier. It incurred a trading loss for the year of 1.3 mln stg, compared
with a profit of 9.7 mln. Turnover was down at 114.1 mln stg from 135.2 mln a
year earlier...."

"...The profit and loss account shows significantly lower numbers than in the
previous year, although it is not the principal financial yardstick by which
Caledonia seeks to measure itself. Earnings per share decreased from 53.2 pence
to 3.8 pence and adjusted earnings per share moved from 49.6 pence to 18.6
pence.
Results from subsidiaries, in difficult economic circumstances, fell by £7.5m to
£2.2m before a £3.5m write-off of goodwill relating to Sterling Industries. An
overall addition of £8.5m in interest payable included £4m relating to
Caledonia's associates. Furthermore Caledonia's share of results from associate
companies fell by £14m due largely to the absence of the exceptional
market-making profits previously earned by Close Brothers..."
Profit before taxation for the year to 31 March 2002 totalled £8.2m, compared
with £55.7m reported last year..."

"...Total operating profit of £26.1m for the year to 31 March 2002 decreased by 51% compared with last year's figure of £53.5m.

A number of factors contributed to a decrease in trading results from a £9.7m
profit last year to a £1.3m loss this year. Sterling Industries reported a loss
of £0.4m, compared with a profit of £1.5m last year and, in addition, £3.5m of
capitalised goodwill was written off. Amber recorded profits of £1.6m, down
£0.4m from last year, Edinburgh Crystal reported a loss of £0.8m compared with
£0.6m last year and The Sloane Club dipped from £2.1m last year to £1.7m..."



My extracts above are all negative ones (no surprise there then). For a possibly fairer view see the full report at


Quotes beyond 2 July allow for a 17.2p divi. (xd reportedly 3 July)

I opened a small downbet this morning.