White Young Share Discussion Threads

[addict] 16/4/2009 08:05

jg,
ARL market cap 26m and turnover 42m.WHY has market cap of 4m and t/over of over 1/4 billion.The upside on WHY is potentially huge.DYOR

[notachance3] 15/4/2009 20:19

sundancer

His email is

[jg1882] 15/4/2009 16:03

see also arl for co. that is further through their problems having fixed balance sheet last year. Again just starting to gain some traction and acceptance.

[jg1882] 15/4/2009 16:01

did the same myself a week or so back. Think the increasing risk appetite of mkt and some easing of credit conditions will help. Another positive here is the recent weakness of the Euro over the last month given that a large portion of WHYs debt denominated in Euros. Should improve interest cover and take some risk out of a covenant breach.

[addict] 15/4/2009 10:48

Picked up a few for recovery-dead money if it doesn't work out.Some heavily indebted companies riding higher on recovery prospects...PDG,AVE,RAY....maybe this one once the (sellers)give up.Buy low,sell high...t'was ever thus....DYOR

[sleveen] 08/4/2009 16:45

I thought it was only private investors that sold at the bottom:-)

PS HYC have staged a recovery following today's notification of reasonably substantial director buying.

[tonester30ccfc] 08/4/2009 16:42

Black Rock appear to be the latest leaving the ship

[gisjob2] 22/3/2009 20:08

agreed sleveen,it's the debt that sinks companies in these markets. While there have been setbacks for Hyder, it's not the end of the road as a company, though unfortunately staff are losing their jobs. Whereas WHY are in quite a precarious position and will need a lot of luck and skill to survive in my view.

[sleveen] 20/3/2009 08:13

gj2 thanks for replying, at least HYC don't have a mountain of debt compare to WHY, though HYC do flag that payments are being delayed.

I don't hold WHY but do hold HYC.

Good Luck

[gisjob2] 20/3/2009 01:29

Sleveen, yes I was thinking of Hyder!.

Chrisjg, I agree with you completely in hoping job losses are kept to a minimum, sadly I was speaking to someone with a contact in one of the WHY offices and they've had a drastic cull of staff.

When you're in the industry as I am, you do get a sense of most companies cutting staff. I've heard of 3 companies in the last couple of weeks. The ones struggling the most tend to be the ones who listed on the stockmarket and have had to put up with the pressures the market has brought to bear.
My company isn't listed (luckily), but that doesn't make us immune. If you're in this industry and have a job, then your doing very well!

[chrisjg] 19/3/2009 16:11

gisjob2, I agee with your comments regarding Dubai and to an extent Abu Dhabi is similar but is considered to be less affected. WHY intent to open the office in Abu Dhabi and this market does seem to be stronger but it is a tough time in the UAE. Consultants are not being paid, projects are being put on hold and people being laid off at an alarming rate. This is why in part I am cautious on WSH who seemed to have survived much better but I am sure given the climate in the UAE their fees are going to take a knock. I still have a substancial holding in WHY and I hope WHY will make it through these times - not only for my investment but also for the staff working for them.

all the best Chrisjg

[tonester30ccfc] 18/3/2009 16:46

Job cuts loom at Adams Kara Taylor
18 March, 2009

By Olivia Boyd

Thirty-eight AKT engineers 'at risk of redundancy' according to parent company White Young Green

Around 16% of staff at engineer Adams Kara Taylor are facing redundancy after being told their jobs are at risk.

The firm completed a consultation with staff on 4 March and identified 38 roles that were "at risk of redundancy", parent company White Young Green (WYG) said. The individuals affected are now going through a further two week consultation.

WYG axed 235 jobs in the last six months of 2008 and has said more will follow this year. Outgoing chairman Peter Wood has indicated the firm is planning cuts in its Irish and its engineering divisions.

The engineer, which warned it may breach its banking covenant last month, bought Adams Kara Taylor for £10.5m in November 2006.

[tonester30ccfc] 18/3/2009 15:41

Yup, a whole £1700 worth each. Vote of confidence

[thrgef] 18/3/2009 15:38

Directors buying!!, perhaps a token gesture

[thrgef] 18/3/2009 13:51

These companies have various framework agreements for public sector work including rail, highways, infrastructure, water, etc. As well as contracts for schools, hospitals and maintenance contracts on all sorts of public buildings, etc. None of the companies have all their eggs in one basket, i.e. rely purely on work from Dubai. If work has dried up in a certain sectors they will simply make reduntancies or close offices. The problem is with the companies with large loan repayments to meet when portions of the business are not performing, namely WHY.

Its easy to forget about all of the above in the current doom and gloom

[sleveen] 18/3/2009 08:16

gisjob2

re your comments about Dubai etc is one of the other companies Hyder consulting?

[gisjob2] 18/3/2009 00:57

I haven't been on ths page before and don't hold shares. However I do work in the same industry and have friends who work for various other companies in the industry. It seems to me that WHY management made poor decisions in Ireland and are now going to compound their troubles by being too late to the party in Dubai. Dubai is a dead duck at the moment. I know of another company that had loads of work pulled in Dubai. The investment money has disappeared very quickly over there. Dubai isn't paved with gold anymore. The Luxury end of the market has disappeared. Projects are being frozen at a rate of knots.

Believe me, WHY's debt is a huge mountain to climb, and when it is known you are a company in trouble it becomes even harder to win work. Some companies in the same industry are bidding for work at a loss, just to try and stay in business in the short term.

It's obviously to late to bail out of the share, I have only posted this to suggest people think twice before gambling and buying a load because they are cheap, because within the industry the talk is more about whether WHY will survive.

Good luck all!

[thrgef] 17/3/2009 21:51

I haven't presumed anything, it would be silly to do so. Is all I've said is that in my opinion the most likely scenario is that the Group will be streamlined, poor performing divisions off loaded, split up or what ever. How they refinance themselves is another matter, who knows? I don't, or in fact, if they will be able to.

However, due to the fact the majority of the Business appears to be in reasonable to very good condition(when compared to Ireland and Engineering divisions)it is just my opinion that this is the most likely outcome.

If they manage to ride the immediate financial storm I may buy some but by then they may be 15-20p

[tonester30ccfc] 17/3/2009 20:51

thrgef,

But that presumes that current market valuations will match those paid for companies at the time of purchase and clearly, they will not.

Revenue will be down on 2 years ago (the height of the WHY purchase spree) and profits will be down. Finance is not available to fund acquisitions (other than at firesale prices) particularly in the distressed property and construction marketplace. Most importantly, competitive fee bidding will be driving profits to the point where many companies will be satisfied at little more than break even.

Can you apply then a multiplier of 10 to that? Not in this market.

The long and the short of it is that companies like Tweeds say, purchased for £11m+ a couple of years ago will struggle to achieve a fraction of that today.

How then is WHY going to its immediate £40m requirement or make a sizeable dent in its £90m+ debt mountain?

[thrgef] 17/3/2009 19:46

Would Directors be allowed to buy shares? Wouldn't they be privy to the negotiations which are ongoing behind the scenes on how to save the company? I personally wouldn't buy any shares but for the risk takers there is potential large upside here imho. The most likely scenario is that the company will be spilt up, divisions off-loaded and sold on. There are too may profitable departments and too many departments with large order books for this to go into admin, but we shall see.

[tonester30ccfc] 17/3/2009 17:58

£2.9m market cap and still no director buys. This is now priced to go bust IMO

[sleveen] 17/3/2009 17:13

.....the exceptional items in respect of the work in progress and debtor
provisions of GBP8m,.....prudent write down on impaired debt which management think is unlikely to be recovered.IMHO.

GL

[chrisjg] 17/3/2009 16:43

I am very interested in the Exceptional charge of GBP8m in respect of a provision against work in progress and debtor balances, my hope is this is a very cautious move on their part and that they will in fact see a lot of this come back onto the books but it is an odd thing to see does anyone have any thoughts?

OTB2 - no idea but hoping they will survive imo they are a good solid consultancy and I am still heavily invested..


all the best Chrisjg

[onlythebest2] 16/3/2009 10:38

OMG have just seen the share price of this - such a shame. what does everyone reckon are its recovery chances?