Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[woodpeckers] 12/12/2019 21:23

Sounds very reassuring Lovat, many thanks.

I think it's great that they are taking their time (and indeed aren't we 'lucky' that they have that luxury!) to ensure that deals are executed correctly to ensure that we are fully integrated in to the supply chain...it would have been all too easy to sell a few kgs wherever we could.. have to presume that this is one of the many benefits of having the UK Gov on board...

And we're the ones who will benefit from all this great foresight...

[philbyk30] 12/12/2019 21:17

But it is more than £275k a month!!!

[bobsworth] 12/12/2019 21:14

Great China update today!

Great to read “Ongoing discussions and progress with Beijing Institute of Graphene Technology Co. Ltd ("BIGT") and the China International Graphene Industry Union ("CIGIU").

and

“Graphene incubation facility being established in Fangshan with CIGIU/BIGT in line with AGM statement and contractual negotiations continuing.”

However, the new China news today was:

“Non-binding heads of terms signed with Jinan Bo Guan Building Engineering Co., Ltd ("JBG") to form a manufacturing joint venture located in Zhucheng City, Shangdong, providing further opportunities in China.”

This includes:

“JBG would, together with associates, be responsible for the construction of a graphene valley park over a three-year period!”

Like BIGT, JCB have also “expressed an interest in taking a strategic investment stake in Versarien as part of any transaction. Legally binding contracts have yet to be signed and updates on progress will be made in due course.”

So, clearly a lot more is being planned with China and no wonder VRS are now” looking at opportunities to secure long term supply agreements with high quality graphite mines”.

What’s the betting these grahite mines are in China too!

Roll on 2020!

[lovat scout] 12/12/2019 21:11

Bangers,

I’ll try not to repeat too much of what has already been said in the RNS, podcast or already covered adequately here, but I’m typing this out quickly whilst I have a signal on a nightmare train journey!!

CL wasn’t shy and dived straight into the cash flow issue. As LK and LO said, simply not a concern and expenditure can be dialled down if necessary. As previously stated, opportunities to pursue are numerous but focus currently on big 5. Confidence levels for big 5 remains very high.

There is no competition for VRS graphene at present or on the horizon so VRS as keen as shareholders to take advantage.

Technology has come a long way in a short time - graphene and inks were lab experiments 5 and 2 years ago and are now in the point of commercialisation - quite an achievement by any standard.

Some products are fast to market and others in safety critical products take 5-10 years. VRS have fingers in pies at all points of the timeline.

II feedback today all positive - keep going the message.

Having to move at clients’ speed is main handbrake but this will diminish in importance once collaborations convert.

The conferences that the team attend are highly productive as industry assumption, including companies you would think should know better, is that graphene is years away from commercialisation. Jaws drop when delegates are corrected and multiple enquiries follow.

China will happen when it happens - can’t be rushed as a bad deal would be commercial suicide but all on track.

The business opportunity is there and the risk is the deal execution, hence the need to get each deal right in order to benefit for years to come. VRS isn’t selling bags of 2D products off the shelf but integrating itself at multiple points of the supply chain which takes time and care. Mike Brenner has explained this point previously in great detail. This approach makes VRS a vital ingredient in their clients’ success therefore more difficult to dislodge.

Some will be disappointed that there were no inside tips, nudges or winks given but that reassures me.

AIMHO etc

[loglorry1] 12/12/2019 21:04

Why on earth would a short close on today's results given the huge market cap.

VRS has once again shown it can't sell any Graphene and the best it can come up with is the same story they've been peddling for years.

Meanwhile the market has moved on and there is plenty of good quality supply at sub $100/kg.

The financials today were a train wreck and Neill's excuses for them on Vox were so painful one felt that only the biggest mugs out there would believe them.

The results also exposed previous lies like the FD cash burn lie and the 3T machine flat out.

They'll be a raise soon nailed on. Why anyone would hold now rather than take part in that at c50p is mindboggling.

[2dinvestor] 12/12/2019 20:56

The register confirms iis were holding shares, fact.My point was I didnt claim "it was the shorters wot did it" I said "some shorters closing too I'd have thought". Don't see any qualification re your dead cat bounce comment btw...Keep twisting.

[woodpeckers] 12/12/2019 20:54

That's a very kind comment Hoverflyman and much appreciated.

My aim is always to cut out the noise so that I can see the bare bones of what I'm investing in. It helps me to put things 'on paper' which is why I make so many notes and it makes sense to pass those on in case it helps anyone else.

In situations like the last couple of days it is all too easy to panic and think others must know something I don't or i must be missing something, hence my 'system'.

I won't say I don't have my moments but being 'methodical' really helps.

Totally happy that my money is well invested here.

[rogerthegrouch] 12/12/2019 20:46

All sensible in a row for me these days. Filter working wonderfully.

[hoverflyman] 12/12/2019 20:41

You set the right tone Woody and calm the brawl!

[woodpeckers] 12/12/2019 20:34

OMG ...just realised we've had 14 sensible posts in a row...how long has it been since that has happened??? Hope this is a sign of a change of the times....

[hoverflyman] 12/12/2019 20:22

Makes sense perhaps to conclude the BIGT deal after 1Jan 2020?



“ China September 12 2019
China’s legislature has approved amendments to three laws that will strengthen protections for intellectual property (IP) rights in the country. Revisions were made to the Trademark Law, Law Against Unfair Competition, and Administrative Licensing Law. These changes are crucial to the successful implementation of the new Foreign Investment Law that was passed at the end of the Two Sessions meeting in March, which in most years is China’s biggest political event. The law will come into effect on January 1, 2020.”

“ Revisions to the Anti-Unfair Competition Law and the Administrative Licensing Law focus on strengthening trade secrets protections. These amendments have already taken effect.

Law Against Unfair Competition amendments:

The definition of trade secrets will include all “trade information”, not just technical information and “business information”.
Two new types of misappropriation have been added: acquiring trade secrets through “hacking” and “instigating, inducing, or assisting in” the breach of confidentiality to “acquire, disclose, use, or allow others to use” trade secrets (Article 9).
All entities and individuals – not just “business operators” – are subject to the Law’s prohibitions on the misappropriation of trade secrets (Article 9).
Provision of quintuple damages for malicious trade secret infringement introduced and the maximum statutory damages increased to RMB 5 million (US$741,180).
The amendment reverses the burden of proof in civil trade secret suits when the plaintiff makes certain prima facie showings (Article 32).
Administrative Licensing Law amendments:

Those involved in licensing proceedings are prohibited from disclosing an applicant’s “trade secrets, undisclosed information, or confidential business information” without the applicant’s consent or unless otherwise authorized by law (Article 5). Before an administrative agency discloses such information, it must allow the applicant to make an objection.
No agency is allowed to make the grant of a license conditional on the transfer of the applicant’s technology (Article 31). The agency cannot directly or indirectly demand technology transfer in the course of implementing the license.”

[nellyb] 12/12/2019 20:15

no fundraising - I hope this is going bounce tomorrow.

[chillpill] 12/12/2019 20:05

On the subject of accounts you wonder how this company will keep going?

[superg1] 12/12/2019 19:51

And to add to that the non deal insti roadshow is underway.

Non deal = not a fund raise roadshow.

Berenberg are sorting it.

[nellyb] 12/12/2019 19:50

luckyorange - you've got a way with words - hopefully loglorry feels a little hurt by them.

[ad631] 12/12/2019 19:48

'we are in the best possible position to be a major part of the imminent "Graphene Revolution".' - I thought VRS would be the best performing share of 2019...now amended to 2020:)

[grabster] 12/12/2019 19:41

So, several assessments by observers, along with figures stated by the company's finance chief, all indicate that existing funds will see us through the next 12 months and beyond. And that's without the pending investment by BIGT, and without counting any revenue from deals that materialise along the way - of which there are several likely.

Detractors are going to have to find some other issue on which to base their embarrassingly obvious scaremongering.

[scottishfield] 12/12/2019 19:36

I was at the AGM in September. It was clearly stated then that in line with their (overall) strategy, 'spend' would indeed go up. They stated estimated figures, which, coincide with these ones given today. So, it's NO surprise. So, quite right Woody.

[woodpeckers] 12/12/2019 19:30

Luckykids, many thanks for reporting back, good of you.

Luckyorange, it's strange but I would have been a bit disappointed if spends hadn't gone up! ....

" but as the Company gears up for production this is rising to £150-£175,000/month." ...

To me it would have suggested that if the company wasn't gearing up, that would have been cause for concern!

[luckyorange] 12/12/2019 19:29

As you said first thing chillpill and nice to get confirmation all the same 👍

[chillpill] 12/12/2019 19:25

Luckykids,

Thanks for the clarification on the cash burn in the 185-200k range.

Haven’t had time to double check but H1 will have included spend on the capacity.

Bottom line is they have cash until 2021.

[jointer13] 12/12/2019 19:17

Smacks of desperation though

[jointer13] 12/12/2019 19:16

They’ve started already luckyorange
Lol

[laginaneil] 12/12/2019 19:06

Lucky,

Thank you very much for that feedback, much appreciated.