Utilitywise Share Discussion Threads

[cockerhoop] 04/7/2017 08:43

The fact UTW took upfront volume payments from certain suppliers based the number of customers delivered (rather than commission) and is busily backing out of this model opens up the risk of a mis-selling scandal imo.

[sdtreble] 04/7/2017 08:09

Bought in here yesterday for the first time, completely understand why investors over the last few years have been so frustrated with this share but there is a decent business lurking underneath here. With the board changes & the current share price the potential upside far outweighs any further downside imho.

[cockerhoop] 03/7/2017 13:54

Profit booked but £46.1m yet to be collected :-)

[r ball] 03/7/2017 12:56

Doubt a takeover would occur. Most of the profit on customer contracts has already been booked. And brand is tarnished.

[karadas09] 03/7/2017 11:38

Unfortunately I did invest a few weeks back, and really annoyed with myself for not reading between the lines a bit more what was going on here. Fundamentally energy consultancy is still a good business to be in with excellent growth potential, and if the recent announcement draws a line under the historic accounting problems then these shares are definitely oversold. However, I do have nagging doubts that the next thing will be a significant reduction in debtors, leaving the balance sheet looking very hairy. I've decided I'm going to hold simply because this was a small investment for me (even smaller now!). If the company gets into real difficulties with cash flow I expect a takeover is a likely outcome, given the large customer base and potential future revenues.

[greco600] 03/7/2017 11:18

I'm not invested here I was close to investing a few weeks back, luck saved me this time if I'm honest. but now I am starting to debate on investing a small amount. I just think it might test the 52 week low of 62p then bounce from there, won't allow much chance to get in at that price is my prediction.

[opodio] 02/7/2017 22:57

yes the implication of fraud you suggest is why this is finished

[r ball] 02/7/2017 22:27

Purposefully overestimating usage to earn commissions may be construed as fraud. As an energy supplier I would keep well away from this company. investors may want to do the same too. 25p prior to suspension?

[d1nga] 02/7/2017 19:48

do you really think they'll retain the divi ?

I bought in on the RNS but out again on Friday due to the weakness , there doesn't appear to be any appetite for the stock yet , been a royal shafting for the long termers

[svenice7] 02/7/2017 19:36

So operating profit of £18 million, have to give back £7 million. PE of 3. Yield of 10%. I might have a nibble tomorrow morning, looks oversold.

[opodio] 02/7/2017 19:29

When the next client asked for millions back this could crash

Auditors might ask for huge provisioning


Technically I woungnt be surprised if UTW is technically insolvent as a result

[tsmith2] 02/7/2017 17:49

I have found some of the morons are the boards the perfect bell weather to buy

[opodio] 02/7/2017 17:19

When the next client asked for millions back this could crash

Auditors might ask for huge provisioning

[nocton] 02/7/2017 15:29

Looking at the figures and the proposed impact on income and cash flows, and considering that the last dividend was covered 2.5x it seems perfectly possible that the current dividend could be maintained, which according to Digital Look suggests a 9% payment.

[tsmith2] 30/6/2017 13:14

Just taken some

[tsmith2] 30/6/2017 07:41

Why stop their, all the clients could want £100mn back yesterday, with interest.

[opodio] 30/6/2017 07:38

will go bust
ALL their clients in theory could want #7m back imho

[spectoacc] 30/6/2017 07:36

"..In terms of figs.." - you mean whether profit is positive or negative?

[tsmith2] 30/6/2017 07:33

It's called perspective. The news yesterday in terms of figs wasn't actually as bad as the fall

[kazuko] 30/6/2017 07:22

Liberum Capital cuts UTW price form 228 to 206 yesterday.. what planet are these analysts on? Does no one hold them to account? Its verging on criminality.

[opodio] 30/6/2017 07:21

Woodford taken a slap here yesterday


Woodford will take a slap on GMD today after profit warning

[opodio] 29/6/2017 21:32

has a stockbroker on the board


tells you all u need to know

[topvest] 29/6/2017 19:29

Does anyone actually understand the rubbish this company puts out?

"Utilitywise remains in positive discussions with the Energy Company and has agreed to make repayments of commissions, previously paid to Utilitywise, totalling GBP7.6m between June 2017 and December 2020."

They are repaying commissions that they haven't received yet as June 2017 and December 2020 is the future? Absolute rubbish. They are repaying commissions for contract periods from June 2017 to December 2020 presumably. Doesn't anyone read the text and spot the garbage? Seems they are so tied up in their dodgy accounting that they can't even write a sensible sentence!

"The Board however feels it is prudent to reflect the full potential impact of the payments in the financial statements of the Group at this stage, though is confident Utilitywise will receive some of the cash back from the Energy Company at the conclusion of the contracts. The majority of the contracts in question are ordinarily due to end in the calendar years 2020 and 2021, at which point the final value of commissions due to Utilitywise will be determined and the final cash position between the two parties then settled. Accordingly, the Group will recognise an accounting charge for the full potential impact, estimated at GBP11.2m, subject to external audit, in its income statement in the year ended 31 July 2017. GBP7.7m of this charge is expected to be recognised as an exceptional item, with the remaining GBP3.5m reducing the underlying profit before tax of the Group in the same period."

Inconsistent with the earlier paragraph and totally confusing. How do they know about under consumption in periods that haven't even started?

I agree that this is a "don't touch it with a bargepole list" company now. I sold out a few years ago as I wasn't convinced on the cash flow. It just gets worse.

This company is either break even (at best) or bust (at worst). Avoid!