Totally Share Discussion Threads

[nobbygnome] 14/5/2018 09:02

Only Peel left on the 27p bid.....

[deltrotter] 14/5/2018 08:48

Agreed. Should now push through 30p and then my target is 45-50p over the next 3 months....

[dave4545] 14/5/2018 08:47

Nothing offered online now at 26p, was a good price, no wonder it got bllitzed

[nobbygnome] 14/5/2018 08:46

Cenkos on the bid again....

Nobby

[microscope] 12/5/2018 19:17

No worries Nobby. I'd even hazard a little guess che2win has a near identical twin who supposedly bought into TLY a couple of weeks or so ago ?

[nobbygnome] 12/5/2018 18:23

Che is a sad troll and is an absolute disgrace for posting such a load of rubbish here. He lost a fortune on IMM where I called it exactly correctly and consequently he is very bitter and twisted. He continues to ramp IMM even though it is dead in the water.

I always think it is particularly sad when trolls cross from one thread to another. Please filter him.

Nobby

[microscope] 12/5/2018 15:55

Nothing atall against bear points Gowlane, and would agree they can add to the quality of discussion, but 16 posts in about a couple of hours strikes me as spam, especially given the poster's comment on the IMM thread (whose style seems somehow erm, familiar, lol...) that he/she was going to post only - 'more' (a dead giveaway, as to having previously posted) - negative points.

Sikh is right though, let the individual do their worst.

Posters here know the score.

[gowlane] 12/5/2018 15:20

Sometimes these debates are the best way to draw out the bull and bear points and help new investors size up the investment case for themselves.

For example from the LSE thread we learned that Virgin Care were making 4-5% profit on turnover (a nice target to aim at) and that Capita were big players in this space and now need to downsize.

So if we get the Vocare acquisition right there should be other low hanging fruit out there on offer.

Not a no-brainer of course, you weigh it all up and then you pays your money and takes your choice.

[gowlane] 12/5/2018 15:10

Chairman Bob Holt said in the GM document: “The Company holds surplus cash resources which are not required in the normal day-to-day management of its business”.

Now I cannot imagine that Bob Holt would agree to a share buyback unless they were generating free cash flow as we speak, no point in spending down your cash pile just to prop up the share price.

Vocare were growing fast, going from £32m-£60m-£77m in the 3 years to March 2017, but they seem to get paid in advance for their services.

And they made about £1.8m net profit over those 3 years, a little lumpy or uneven maybe but at least it gives TLY something to work with.

[grahamwales] 12/5/2018 14:53

Hopefully all investors look at good and bad points about companies before investing.

Doesn’t matter what we say on here it’s what the company does that matters. Happy with progress so far and looking forward to a couple of years of growth and consolidation.

[sikhthetech] 12/5/2018 12:39

CQC exists to improve standards...

Do you think ALL NHS GP practices should close because they found some NHS GP practices failed, like the ones in the media recently..

Maybe the NHS should be abolished and replaced by Private Drs???





GPs ordered to STOP treatment at Thurmaston Health Centre over 'safety' concerns

The CQC health watchdog has carried out 'urgent enforcement' action







Cheshunt GP surgery facing closure unless it improves
The practice was placed in special measures last summer

[sikhthetech] 12/5/2018 12:33

Forecasts.. They've already said cash is higher than they originally forecast...

We'll know when the fyMarch results come out, if they are on track to building the kind of business their comments suggest..

Hopefully, we'll know soon..

[sikhthetech] 12/5/2018 12:28

TLY are trying to build a niche business following NHS plans for shared decision making and integrated care...

Vocare are not their only subsidiary, although it is their largest. Margins are tight for all businesses trying to win govn contracts but you have missed the fact that there is a lot of potential for cross-selling from their other subsidiaries...


Many businesses use a front to gain customers to cross sell...eg Google provided free email and search but used that to build their business, didn't they???

eg Physiotherapy is a fast growing area, if patients come in for muscle pain then TLY can cross sell their physio services..

If TLY can provide the sort of cross selling and integrated care they seem to want to offer and turn a profit then what price would you put on them???

[sikhthetech] 12/5/2018 12:22

Che7win, just like RTHM or IMM, no investment is guaranteed...
Looking at your last few posts on IMM, it seems obvious that you're in deep water there and seem to want to blame others, notably nobby... you're repeated suggesting takeover of IMM at multiple current sp, so I think it's credible to say that you're in too deep....



It seems IMM share price crashed from 150p to around mid 30's.. without looking too much into it, was it a drug trail failure???

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and everyone should do their own research..

Now to TLY and your points...

[che7win] 12/5/2018 12:10

Microscope,
I will not post anymore here unless invited again, wish you all the best with your investment.

It does pay to look at the bear points though, you have a cash buffer which gives some time to let things pan out here.

[che7win] 12/5/2018 11:22

I'll give you another reason why I think they may need the cash.

The NHS trusts may be very nervous about doing business with you if you don't hold it on your balance sheet.



IMHO, DYOR.

[che7win] 12/5/2018 11:19

I think it's is very ill conceived for this business, that isn't profitable, also not cash generating, to be doing a share buyback.

The only time a company should do a share buyback is if they have no use for the cash in my opinion.

Is this company, based on a buy and build mentality really saying they would rather do a share buy back?

What happens the next time they decide to buy another loss making business with so many problems as Vocare?

They would raise cash?

[che7win] 12/5/2018 11:09

Graham,
Ok, let's get right up to date.

The interim results had something conspicuous by its absence.

There is no mention in current trading of Vocare, or indeed that its profitable.

I conclude therefore that's it's my opinion they are not making money, would you agree?

How long before that cash is used up?

IMHO, DYOR

[grahamwales] 12/5/2018 11:03

chewin


You are posting old stuff there mate. Get up to date then comment. Former owners of Vocare have gone for a start. Try and keep up good there’s a good man

[deltrotter] 12/5/2018 10:46

The above suggests a shorter getting damned worried!

[che7win] 12/5/2018 10:44

I have discovered more alarm bells in my opinion, I will hold off for now.

I may post later for you.

Quite like to be part of this journey with you all going forwards?

[che7win] 12/5/2018 10:39

Dave,
From what I can see, Vacare was over paid for in my opinion.

And the Care Quality Comission has been pretty damming on it, why did you pay so much for this:

""In three areas the Care Quality Commission (CQC), the regulator of care services in the UK, recently marked its service inadequate while in two others there was a recommendation that improvement was needed.

A red flag? Not according to Wendy Lawrence, Totally’s chief executive, who believes the CQC reports helped its own due diligence.

“The CQC audits are very detailed. There should be no more surprises as it has gone over everything,” she told Proactive.

Totally was not in charge when the problems occurred (it completed the acquisition two weeks ago) and Lawrence says action has already been taken to improve performance.

Leadership and inadequate processes and systems were at the root but Vocare’s clinical care was rated ‘good’ by the CQC, she points out.

“We have added to a solid clinical governance framework, both at managerial and director level, alongside experienced clinical managers who are used to working with CQC.

“We are also working with the staff in areas that need improvement, and supporting them to make the changes required.”

The structure of the deal now means only £6.5mln of the £11mln consideration will be paid upfront in cash to ensure the owners, who are staying on, are incentivised."

[che7win] 12/5/2018 10:35

Underlying figures are even worse:

"
The unaudited management accounts for the five months ended 31 August 2017 show that during this period Vocare made an operating loss of £786,000 on turnover of £27,408,000. Exceptional non- recurrent expenditure, largely relating to quality improvement initiatives, accounted for £325,000 of the loss. Trading losses before exceptional items were anticipated due to the seasonality of the business. The loss for the period has been funded by cash reserves within the Group. The Vocare management team anticipates a return to profitability in the remainder of the financial year"

And don't think those exceptional items are one offs, they never are in a business like this.

Vocare is a cash consuming business, just like your current business, so that's why they are not forecast to make any money in the near future.

You really think the NHS is going to fund big profits here?

[dave4545] 12/5/2018 10:32

Your in the past che7win.

Do you not assume new management will not be improving margins at Vocare. Their cash levels were ahead of forcast. To the point they intend to use surplus cash to buyback shares.