Shaft Sink Share Discussion Threads

[rcturner2] 04/7/2013 20:03

hh, so the ad hominem attacks have started already

I think you have to face up to the fact that you made a mistake here, how much are you down in % terms?

SHFT is inextricably linked to the mining sector particularly in SA. There could not be a worse sector to be in right now.

[hedgehog 100] 04/7/2013 19:07

Some investors are so short-sighted.

Share price goes up a bit, and they think everything's great.

Share price goes down a bit, and they think everything's terrible.

Though in your case I think you're just a foul-mouthed troll here to deramp prior to buying in.

[hedgehog 100] 04/7/2013 18:59

Are you completely, stark staring bonkers? Or just as thick as a plank?

Let me give another example, in this extract from your second post on Hector's thread:

muckshifter 29 Jun'13 - 11:36 - 46 of 62
"...*Another desperate self confessed bit of "economy with the truth" by hedgehog?
The 'scuttlebutt' with SHFT suggests that they are talking to EuroChem to settle in advance of the arbitration hearing. Hedgehog post shft board 1973 22/5
Shft:If the dispute isn't resolved in advance, it's likely to be resolved by the end of 2014. Early settlement is always possible, and discussions are ongoing with EuroChem, but they're not very active at the moment. HH AGM post shft board 2017 9/6...."



Over two weeks before SHFT's AGM, I posted one view.
I then attended SHFT's AGM on 7th. June, and obtained updated information on that view, which I was previously unaware of, and shared it with readers.

Why would any sane, intelligent person have a problem with that?


These are your basis for branding me a "deceitful liar".


As regards my background, I believe that I have previously said that I have studied accountancy at university.

Maybe I'd reveal more if you tell us who you are and who you work for (with evidence), e.g. working for a rival to SHFT.

[muckshifter] 04/7/2013 17:10

"Hedgehog 100
4 Jul'13 - 15:33 - 2155 of 2161 0 0


Muckshifter,

You are being quite ridiculous.

What makes you think that I noticed that part of that lengthy post, or if I did, that I didn't take it in, or subsequently forgot about it? None of that is lying.

But in any case, for the purposes in question, 'working in the mining industry', and 'working in civil engineering work that gives knowledge of mining' amounts to the same thing: i.e. self-proclaiming that you know more than everyone else.

And I certainly have never, ever, boasted about extensive research into your posting history, which research I have not done.

I found that TMF post in a quick search on google, and it is the only TMF post of yours that I have even looked at!"

I don't believe you Hedgehog. You ignored all my previous posts ( about 5, which you certainly did read because you responded to them) explaining that I did not work in the mining industry after your deliberately misleading claim on this subject, put forward regularly as one of your many attempts to discredit me ie. you knew that I didn't work in mining, but chose to annoy me with your stupid repeats of that claim. You then, apparently, by sheer chance, happened on a post of mine on TMF from 2006 which had quite a few questions, with my answers on it. The first few questions, and indeed the ones you partially quote, make quite clear that my field of work was not mining, and you also quote one of the later answers from the post showing that you read it all, so it seems to me a bit beyond belief that you managed to avoid understanding that point. You remain, in my book, a deceitful liar, using every way you can to annoy and undermine a poster, from name calling, to allegations without any basis about anything that comes into your head. And as always, when challenged you change the subject. What about your experience of civil engineering contracts and arbitration then, and when are you going to tell us what you do for a living?

[hedgehog 100] 04/7/2013 16:12

WyleCoyote 4 Jul'13 - 10:12 - 2153 of 2161
"... The salary of A Davidov is £883,000 GBP(including bonuses). Robert Shroder is £358,0000 and Christopher Hall is £744,000. The IPO bonus awarded them £1.3m GBP... Whereas the executive directors at camco are earning a combined £400,000 GBP...."


NO, NO, NO W.C.

The 2012 salaries, fees, & bonuses for the CEO Alon Davidov & CFO Christopher Hall were as follows:
Alon Davidov £199,616 salary & fees, £160,574 bonuses
Christopher Hall £164,583 salary & fees, £121,442 bonuses

And in order to get their full LTPI award for 2013, the CEO and CFO will have to both deliver good earnings growth and get the share price much higher.

As regards Robert Shroder - he resigned about two years ago:

19/07/2011 14:14 UKREG Directorate Change
Shaft Sinkers Holdings PLC (LSE: SHFT) today announces that its Chief Operating Officer, Rob Schroder, has given his six months notice of his intention to resign from the Group for personal reasons and will step down later this year.
The Board would like to record its appreciation for his contribution and dedication to Shaft Sinkers for the past seven years. Rob will be working with the Group to affect an orderly handover.
Alon Davidov, CEO, said: "We wish to thank Rob for all his hard work and wish him all the success for the future."

[hedgehog 100] 04/7/2013 15:52

SHFT market cap. now just £11.52M. at 24.25p mid!

A wonderful bargain for someone I feel.

[hedgehog 100] 04/7/2013 15:48

buywell2 4 Jul'13 - 15:43 - 2157 of 2158 0 0
"1..... Learn about charts
2..... then pick the right sector ( not mining)
3......then pick the right stock ... "


Well then how do you explain you long-term holding in XEN?!

That chart virtually screams out at you: Buy In Troughs, Sell On Spikes!

[hedgehog 100] 04/7/2013 15:44

buywell2 24 Jun'09 - 16:46 - 1 of 1000

"I am a chartist , but I look at fundementals also before picking a share I like.

I have been looking for a few months since Tepnel Life (TED) was bought out by GenProbe for another company to take it's place ...

The 3yr chart shows recent upwards lifting of moving averages due to good news flow recently ... with the cash now raised , LPX looks set to move into profit in 2010.

NOTE also the bottom may well have been put in now as the share price put in a new high of over 22p

My belief is that the biggest gains are made in the year before profitability is attained PLUS the next two years after as long as profits keep rising. This has been the case in many companies I have looked at eg ATD ABC CRX TED AMS and now looking good for SBS.

The recent Singer note with a price of 41p for Lipoxen looks about right at this point with the share at 15p over a 18 month timescale I believe.

IF the recent purchase of LPX shares by Baxter has anything to do with the swine flu vaccine they will have out by JULY .... then that will be consigned to history."




03/06/2011 07:00 UKREG Final Results

"Final results for the year ended 31 December 2010"

"Losses before tax down 46.7% to GBP1.93m (2009: GBP3.63m"

[buywell2] 04/7/2013 15:43

1..... Learn about charts
2..... then pick the right sector ( not mining)
3......then pick the right stock

....... simples




buywell2
28 Apr'13 - 10:57 - 1869 of 2156 0 0 edit


The Historical chart of SHFT is nothing short of terrible



Current trend lines suggest 50p possible

BUT

There now looks to be a trading wedge formed (purple) which has downside implications

Whilst the legal outcome will have an impact, the price of PLAT being as Hedgehog 100 has said pertaining to some $350 million of PLAT related contracts could also have an even bigger impact.

If the FED and Banks attack the price of GOLD again to protect the $USD , one would imagine PLAT and other precious metals will get hit.

I know PLAT has other uses


SHFT was not around in 2008 when PLAT dropped to $1000

The long term chart suggests it could test that again at some point, and when it does the drop could be very quick like 2008

hxxp://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/yearly_graphs.plx

[hedgehog 100] 04/7/2013 15:33

Muckshifter,

You are being quite ridiculous.

What makes you think that I noticed that part of that lengthy post, or if I did, that I didn't take it in, or subsequently forgot about it? None of that is lying.

But in any case, for the purposes in question, 'working in the mining industry', and 'working in civil engineering work that gives knowledge of mining' amounts to the same thing: i.e. self-proclaiming that you know more than everyone else.

And I certainly have never, ever, boasted about extensive research into your posting history, which research I have not done.

I found that TMF post in a quick search on google, and it is the only TMF post of yours that I have even looked at!


P.S. From the Mining Services thread:

muckshifter 20 Jun'13 - 10:21 - 61 of 62
" ... And, of course, you've just proved that you knew all along, or at least since you read that stuff, that my work was muckshifting, rather than as you have stated at least ten times, and probably considerably more, mining!
Congratulations on providing perfect evidence that you are a deceitful liar. ... "


This is the flimsy basis on which Muckshifter brands someone a "deceitful liar"!!

[muckshifter] 04/7/2013 11:23

This post is a good indicator of Hedgehog's deviousness, which is worth repeating imho, from his mining services companies thread:
"muckshifter - 20 Jun 2013 - 10:21:57 - 61 of 63
With reference to Hedgehog's post 2071 on the shft board.


Well congratulations on the thoroughness of your research Hedgehog, you must really be obsessed with trying to find things to discredit me and spend hours and hours on it. Even more obsessed than I thought when I assumed you found the info in earlier posts on this thread. Unfortunately, the sale of Petrobank, and the other trade I mentioned, hadn't been made at that time, but either would probably have displaced the original "best trade".

For the short term trade, there would have been a few rivals I could have chosen, but I enjoyed Newarthill, so it probably would have remained the same.

And, of course, you've just proved that you knew all along, or at least since you read that stuff, that my work was muckshifting, rather than as you have stated at least ten times, and probably considerably more, mining!

Congratulations on providing perfect evidence that you are a deceitful liar. In post 2040 on the shft board, you say,
"As he has apparently worked in the mining industry for about forty years, and Shaft Sinkers have been around for longer than that, perhaps their paths have crossed professionally at some point, in a way that has left him feeling aggrieved?


And a related issue is that 'Muck-smearer' seems to be a very poor investor. His two best investments were apparently about forty years ago, and now, at the age of about sixty, he is trolling a small cap penny share. He has admitted on another website that he doesn't read investment books, and is uber-bearish on the best investment I have ever seen."

But you now reveal that you got the information about my old investments from a post on TMF, which very clearly indicates that I don't work in the mining industry."

(in Post 2071 he triumphantly pointed out that he found information about my early share deals, lack of interest in investment books, etc in a 2006 post on TMF which also clearly showed that I didn't work in the mining industry – what a pity that he had to boast about his extensive research into my posting history, done in his desperate attempts to find things to discredit me, and in so doing shot himself in the foot. He would have read all my posts on shft ADVFN board first anyway, and therefore knew right from the start of that particular campaign pretending that I had a personal grudge against shft, that I didn't work in the mining industry – something he falsely claimed in about six posts iirc.)

[wylecoyote] 04/7/2013 10:12

HH,

what planet are you on? I get your argument about living costs, etc. However, the Directors are earning quite hansomly in some cases. The two cases you refer to are two entirely different cases.

I do wonder if you actually read the intelligent investor or any of these books that you profess to read? It does state that you need to re-assure yourself that the director interests are aligned with those of the shareholders, i.e. have a holding themselves.
Muckshifter is correct, these are just token purchases relative to the fact that this is a multi million dollar business(in your eyes??). The salary of A Davidov is £883,000 GBP(including bonuses). Robert Shroder is £358,0000 and Christopher Hall is £744,000. The IPO bonus awarded them £1.3m GBP... Whereas the executive directors at camco are earning a combined £400,000 GBP.

Percentages mean diddly squat to me, it is how much they stake, as it is indicative of their belief in the company and its prospects. This worked for me at TCG, as the new director staked a considerable sum in TCG. I know little about Camco, but the stake seems fair when taking into account it's size and previous reports trading at a loss. If they had staked £100,000.00, it would have caught my attention. But still, my question would be what do they know that we don't know? Trading may be picking up since the annual report... timing is a consideration too.
With respect of CUP, the director may have made money on selling his previous holding, but why risk a £1m?

[lennonsalive] 04/7/2013 10:05

The SHFT chart since 2011, says it all

[rcturner2] 04/7/2013 08:10

hh, I think I can see the problem here:

"I agree that SHFT is irrationally being treated like a risky mining or mining explo. company facing declining commodity prices and funding problems."

If you removed the word "irrationally" I would agree with you!

BSRT announced today a 24% reduction in NAV over a one month period. Bigger trusts like BRWM are also in trouble. Something is happening to resource stocks, I don't claim to understand it, but it isn't pretty.

[hedgehog 100] 03/7/2013 22:00

There has been some sizeable director share buying in Camco within the last few days, with the CEO & CFO buying £40K. & £45.06K. respectively.
This has been recieved positively on the CCE thread, and at 1.65p the CCE share price is up by nearly fifty per cent compared to a few days ago.

02/07/2013 07:30 UKREG Camco Clean Energy PLC Director Dealing
"Camco Clean Energy plc was notified today that Scott McGregor, Chief Executive Officer, yesterday purchased 2,500,000 ordinary shares of the Company at a price of 1.6 pence per share. Following this transaction, Mr McGregor has an interest in 4,087,746 ordinary shares representing approximately 1.96 per cent of the Company's issued ordinary share capital."


01/07/2013 07:00 UKREG Camco Clean Energy PLC Director Dealing
"Camco Clean Energy plc was notified on 28 June 2013 that Jonathan Marren, Chief Financial Officer, purchased 3,003,985 ordinary shares of the Company at a price of 1.5 pence per share that same day. Following this transaction, Mr Marren has an interest in 3,003,985 ordinary shares representing approximately 1.44 per cent of the Company's issued ordinary share capital."


howdlep 1 Jul'13 - 12:43 - 743 of 810 0 0
"someuwin,
when directors make purchases at a considerable premium then the risk/reward is dramatically reduced for the pi. So I agree, time to follow his lead"

someuwin 2 Jul'13 - 16:06 - 789 of 810 0 0
"The directors know the full story here.
And they have spoken loud and clear."


In comparison, Alon Davidov and Roger Williams invested £29.85K. and £41K. respectively into SHFT shares last year, the biggest SHFT director buys:

22/11/2012 11:11 UKREG Shaft Sinkers Holdings Plc Director/PDMR Shareholding
"Shaft Sinkers was informed on 21 November 2012 that on that day, Mr Alon Davidov, Chief Executive of the Company, had acquired 78,554 ordinary shares ("Shares") in the Company at a price of 38 pence per share. Alon Davidov had not previously held any Shares in the Company.
Accordingly, Alon Davidov's resultant beneficial interest comprises 78,554 ordinary shares, representing 0.17 per cent. of the issued ordinary share capital of the Company."


25/04/2012 14:56 UKREG Director/PDMR Shareholding
"The Company was informed today that Roger Williams, Non-executive Director, acquired 50,000 ordinary shares in the Company on 24 April 2012 at a price of 82 pence per share.
Accordingly, Roger Williams' resultant beneficial interest comprises 50,000 ordinary shares, representing 0.11 per cent. of the issued ordinary share capital of the Company."



I don't believe in general that someone doesn't care about losing a sum of about £30K. to £40K. unless they are high multi-millionaires - i.e. worth tens of millons of pounds.

If that's not the case, then such purchases tell us that the directors do NOT expect to lose their money.


Of course it's easy to try to belittle such purchases by the misleading use of statistics, e.g. quoting the percentage of the company bought, to make the sum look low.

But remember: if you owned just a fraction of a per cent of come companies, you would still be a billionaire.


It's also misleading to quote total earnings of the directors over a number of years, as if that sum was sitting in their broker account available to invest.

You need to make allowances for many things, e.g. taxes, living expenses, buying houses, etc.
From any sum left, you might wish to set up trusts for your children.
From anything left after that, it would be sensible to invest the money between different asset classes, with only a proportion going into equities.

So what sum would actually be left to invest into SHFT? Very possibly, something similar to the amounts put in.

[hedgehog 100] 03/7/2013 18:30

RCTurner,

There are numerous threads I could go on to gloat about shareholders there suffering a falling share price, saying "you got it wrong, didn't you" ... !!!

The phrase 'get a life' springs to mind!


An extract from the Benjamin Graham page of Wikipedia:

"Graham wrote that the owner of equity stocks should regard them first and foremost as conferring part ownership of a business. With that perspective in mind, the stock owner should not be too concerned with erratic fluctuations in stock prices, since in the short term, the stock market behaves like a voting machine, but in the long term it acts like a weighing machine (i.e. its true value will in the long run be reflected in its stock price)."




By resource stocks I presume you mean mining stocks - because oil & gas producers, and oil service stocks, aren't under tremendous pressure.

I agree that SHFT is irrationally being treated like a being treated like a risky mining or mining explo. company facing declining commodity prices and funding problems.
But that is precisely why this is the ideal time to buy: when it's being mispriced on the downside.


Remember that SHFT is actually listed in the support services sector:

FTSE sector Support Services


Mining services companies aren't exposed to metals and minerals prices to the same degree that mining companies are. They are contractors engaged to do a job, and paid to do that job. And SHFT's services to the platinum miners in South Africa are not discretionary.

In addition, SHFT is expanding internationally, and is not restricted to Africa.


Finally, with the SHFT share price just 26p, I think that forward P/Es (on new and undemanding forecasts) of 3.1 for 2013 and 2.2 for 2014 more than compensate for any concerns.