Well spotted Smithy. |
Colin Barnden post re Gentex is old news. Gentex had the same tech demo at the IAA Mobility show in Munich back in September last year. |
Nvh Smart Eye who you write glowing reports about have seen share price down by 16% in the last month vs Seeing Machines up a little.
I think you should be worried about their prospects |
Gentex have been developing the RVM solution for sometime so it's not a surprise. It's not even in the mirror so hardly anything revolutionary about it.
You use emotive wording implying bias.
You should be more worried about Smart Eye who don't appear to have such a solution.
By the way to be fair to Seeing Machines why do you not mention the terrific news coming out of CES this year and Colin Bardons updates on Magna and Guardian.
Its too early to draw conclusions like you are doing without evidence |
I don't understand. What isn't a fact?
This is what I wrote:
The technical advantage in the mirror position didn't last very long and has now evaporated. Gentex demonstrated their offering at CES according to Colin Barnden. So much for patented protection. You only have to slightly differentiate and your in the clear. |
It's not factual because how can you possibly know this is a fact. You state it as a fact when we don't know at this stage what the situation is. |
 AMT: Again what is not factual about my statement? Until CES and Colin Barden's comments no one was aware of Gentex mirror DMS. We now know that they have one. So our position as being the only mirror DMS supplier has now gone and therefore our advantage in this position in the car layout. If nothing else it gives Gentex customers a reason to remain with Gentex.
I accept that 2 camera's instead of one will probably add cost, but that's not to say it's not a better system.
I also accept that the camera is not behind the glass, but appears to be in the surrounding trim / bezel, but again who cares. It's part of the mirror assembly and is manufactured by the main mirror rival to Magna who has a vertical integration model. The mirror was all about location and positioning in the cabin and not whether the camera was behind the glass or not.
The point is that our competitors, that only 12 months ago didn't have products or solutions in both the mirror location and after manufacturer, have caught up and in the case of aftermarket announced contracts.
Seeing Machines and Paul have made statements about the rational behind the lack of OEM contracts in the past 20 months and our lead in the aftermarket space, but what is clear they aren't yet delivering. So we have not taken advantage of our leadership position of the past 18 months to secure new contracts with the mirror product. |
Surely it's too early to tell who now has the advantage?2 cameras might give a better performance than 1.As to them being more expensive, if Gentex own both the mirror and the software ip they could effectively take a hit on the software to sell the mirror.Magna have to pay us for each unit.This could also be the reason for the delays in the rfqs maybe oem's are analysing both systems.We will discover which is better once rfqs start to land. |
The statement you made
"The technical advantage in the mirror position didn't last very long and has now evaporated."
Clearly not factual |
What is misleading? |
www.proactiveinvestors.com.au/companies/news/1038294/seeing-machines-unveils-advanced-driver-monitoring-system-at-ces-2024-1038294.html?rel=scroll |
A comment from NathanR999 on LSE bulletin board which you might find useful nvhltd....
"......Catching up but two cameras needed and not clear if I mirror frame rather than behind mirror. Two cameras adds to cost and no wins yet for gentex software - I could see smarteye/cipia potentially being asked to partner if no bites on gentex dms out of box. Two cameras also add to processing requirements so overheads on central computer. No idea if they have a chip design or partnership that matches performance that an NPU might bring.
My take = close but no cigar...." |
The technical advantage in the mirror position didn't last very long and has now evaporated. Gentex demonstrated their offering at CES according to Colin Barnden. So much for patented protection. You only have to slightly differentiate and your in the clear. |
Interesting website.
Wonder if they have heard of us? |
Great find base. |
Stifel have picked SEE as 1 of their top U.K.small cap stock picks for 2024 |
I would agree nvhltd with Seeing Machines long term as a company prospect. My outlook for SEE is a growth share so I have a different view. I have put in place a financial plan and a behavioral discipline with my Portfolio.
I researched the Company and the Market it operates in, to me SEE ticks all the boxes and should see a good return as any Investor would I think. |
I'm not questioning or doubting the near term revenues from existing oem's, but to grow and maintain market share we need to secure new OEM contracts. Those oems that have yet to choose a dms supplier have literally 2.5 years to go before a camera based dms system has to be in all cars sold in Europe. Paul's assertion that OEM's want to keep adding features and therefore are delaying their decisions to nominate their dms supplier doesn't stack when we compare contracts won by Smarteye against SEE over the past 2 years. Either way decisions have to be made in the next 6 months if SEE maintain there is a 2 year NRE phase to go through.
Each to their own. I want and will seek to get clarity regarding the potential size of the aftermarket. Particularly around the sales process / contracts because as I have said if contracts are exclusive then we have already lost several truck brands to the competition whom until recently didn't even have a product |
nvhltd am not worried I follow the quarterly updates on Revenue and cars on the road. I did mention it is revenue that will move the share price. I am confident that SEE will reach profitability in come next 12 months.
Till then just relax and check every quarter, there is no point in getting worked up as some posters have on other platforms. A few Brokers have come to the same conclusion that 2024/25 probably will see Profitability. You have seen the Articles on their views. |
No it's not and that's why challenging the company helps fill the voids deliberately exploited by the company to remain opaque about the potential opportunity.
For our After Manufacture product.
ALL vehicles REGISTERED in Europe of a certain type have to have Drowsiness detection by July 2024. THIS DOES NOT NEED TO BE A CAMERA BASED SYSTEM.
From July 2026 they add DISTRACTION AND THIS MUST BE A CAMERA BASED SYSTEM.
Gen 3 is both a drowsiness and distraction system using a camera and could be used from July 2024, but doesn't have to be because there are other non camera systems out there.
So for the next 2 years vehicle oem's / operators don't need distraction or a camera based system so it remains to be seen how many opt for an expensive camera system if they don't need to out of the 330K commercial vehicles registered per year.
I have then asked her to explain the relationship DMS suppliers will have with commercial vehicle manufacturers. I'm hoping the oem's will offer several or all dms so we can fight for every vehicle based on our USP. However, if we can only offer our Gen 3 to those vehicle oem's with whom we have a contract we will by default limit our potential market share. We know Cipia have a contract with a commercial vehicle oem with 3 brands and Smarteye have another. So we have to hope these deals are not exclusive otherwise we've already lost a good portion of the market already.
I'm sure everyone would agree we need to know how this market will work for us? |
It's only new models that require it. That's why Smarteye and Cipia have announced contracts for start in 2025 and 2026.In 2026 every vehicle must have it. After 2024 any new model must have it. |
@nvhltd - I am appreciative of your willingness to share your efforts in trying to pin down this company's verbally expressed benefits - talk is cheap and as an investor you are doing exactly what should be done by all of us.
Many thanks |
Register to chat with like-minded investors on our interactive forums.
Hot Features
Premium
