Sanderson Design Share Discussion Threads

[salver2] 08/8/2023 16:36

It will be interesting to compare their performance with Colefaxs results-they do not manufacture but their products are very high end and 55 percent in USA which still seems to be stronger than Europe-their results out in a week or two

[essentialinvestor] 08/8/2023 13:01

Dave, I'm wondering if the operating structure needs a more radical rethink,
but as they are pressing ahead with a large multi year CAPEX spend updating
manufacturing processes, the BOD have clearly reached a different conclusion.

Kicking myself for not adding COA btw post results - their comments on the pension
a factor there, as the longer term pension recovery plan has consumed a huge amount
of cash flow for years - now looks to be coming to an end, or very significantly reduced - apologies off topic.

[disc0dave45] 08/8/2023 12:55

Hi EIOn a LFL compared to H1 last year group Rev (excluding licensing and internal manufacturing - namely inter company elimination in P&L) was down £4.3m. With licensing up £3.8m and efficiency savings of say £0.3m in H1 (£0.6m annualised) then you could argue margins may have improved marginally if they are to hit adjusted profit slightly above last years £6.3m (or could just be down to fx rates?).But overall as I've said for a while now, the core business is not growing, in fact it's declining, and although licensing is supporting the groups bottom line this IMO can disappear quickly (which agreement is the largest contributor?) and isn't a sustainable investment strategy IMO.

[essentialinvestor] 08/8/2023 11:09

The question that might be asked...is the current operating model the right one?.

SDG spending big on CAPEX to modernise manufacturing production, the business employs a lot of people, however significant profit is flowing from licensing alone.

It does not quite add up to me.

Anyone with a counter view to this

[rcturner2] 08/8/2023 11:04

Although I don't hold, just to add that I have one of the William Morris shirts from Next and it is a nice good quality shirt and gets lots of positive feedback.

[disc0dave45] 08/8/2023 11:01

So licensing only increased £0.4m in H1 and the £6.9m is IMO the outturn for the year unless some new agreements come in before year end. The agreements mentioned today (Sangestu & Disney were signed in 2021 & 2022 respectively). The agreements are bespoke, they are not recurring they have specific durations, eg Sangestu expires 2025. No mention of anymore in the pipeline, all old news.Underlying profit for H1 is purely down to licensing covering the reduced income for the core business. Licensing with 100% margins £6.9m but only slightly above £6.3m adjusted underlying profit forecast for H1....mmmm.

[trt] 08/8/2023 10:28

Licence revenues are recurring and just renewed a big one with Next. Market likes the trading statement and I am sure broker upgrades will come along shortly.

[riverman77] 08/8/2023 09:50

In answer to above question - what would profit be without licenses - my understanding is this is pure profit as no costs attached. So profit would be considerably less if you took this away. The question is, are these licensing revenues recurring or more of a one-off? Don't know the company well so don't know the answer myself, but I think that is key.

[barnesian] 08/8/2023 09:25

Tough times in the UK for a year or two - reflected in the price. Solid brands and IP and excellent management. Good long term investment but probably not much movement short term.

[trt] 08/8/2023 08:45

Good solid trading update. Overseas markets doing very well especially the USA.

[gswredland] 08/8/2023 08:45

Not too encouraged by results.
I'll keep watching from the sidelines

[aublune] 08/8/2023 08:32

the cash balance is not moving much because of revenue pull forwarding :/. This stock may be destined to go lower first. what would the profit be without licenses??

[iandippie] 08/8/2023 08:19

Last year's TU didn't refer to "difficult market conditions" and "remaining cautious" and the share price is about the same as back then. Hard to see this moving North just yet on that basis alone.

[salver2] 08/8/2023 08:06

I understand what you are saying Pugugly but I think it is woefully undervalued as I’m not sure we haven’t reached a low on trading and it has a lot of hidden assets (William Morris Archive-amongst other things)

[pugugly] 08/8/2023 08:01

6 times probably correct in a market under pressure from decline in consumer disposable income

[slopsjon2] 08/8/2023 08:00

trt must be close to the 30% mark he should make a bid for the company.

[salver2] 08/8/2023 07:59

It has a valuation of less than 6 times earnings if you strip out the 16 million cash so grossly undervalued at this price but the uk market for most shares is about as bad as I have ever seen so who knows how the market will react!

[pugugly] 08/8/2023 07:47

TU. Down on all metrics apart from licencing revenue but not as bad (possibly) as expected - Forward vision cloudy.

[our haven] 08/8/2023 07:37

Looks like the licensing has changed a negative result to a positive one. Results are solid enough, although not sure what the market expectations will have been.

[hotfinance14] 08/8/2023 07:32

TRT,,,you have more top up's than an alcholic. But i think yours may be virtual.

[trt] 26/7/2023 16:34

Yes grabbed a top up today. So oversold it's unbelievable couldn't miss an opportunity.

[pugugly] 22/7/2023 01:42

Economic skids look to be under this one - Until house sales pick up and mortgage rates down in both UK & USA may well continue to weaken.

[disc0dave45] 21/7/2023 19:39

Surprised someone didn't post yet another top up!