Ruffer Investment Share Discussion Threads

[slicethepie] 02/3/2021 10:08

One of my biggest holdings is Kr1 so not missing out. I was just surprised at the amount of questions being asked about Bitcoin when it was such a small % of fund. In contrast a recent interview of 4 senior fm including Newton showed a complete lack of knowledge regarding Bitcoin and defi. It is a real marmite subject although it has quite an age bias.

[hootza616] 01/3/2021 23:30

In a couple of years you will wonder how you missed the opportunity as Bitcoin became mainstream. Well your experiencing it right now so if you don't take advantage then only yourself to blame.

[rambutan2] 01/3/2021 21:48

Good Chairman's statement I thought: htTps://www.ruffer.co.uk/-/media/Ruffer-Website/Files/Downloads/RIC/Documents/RIC-half-yearly-report-Dec2020.pdf?la=en

[slicethepie] 25/2/2021 17:22

On Wednesday Ruffer did an excellent overview of recent performance and outlook, this is available on their website and is 30 mins well. Crazy amount of questions about their bitcoin investment out of all proportion to actual holding.

[hootza616] 25/2/2021 10:03

Just to be clear I don't hold any BTC directly so as to avoid the tax implications on any profits. I hold this companies that have BTC as long term investment investment strategy or that mine BTC and hold themselves.ARB and MSTR both available in SIPP/ISA.

[jonwig] 21/2/2021 18:40

Hoot - you're clearly shrewder than they! As RICA said on 15/12: One recent addition, via one of the specialist managers appointed within the Ruffer Multi-Strategies Fund, has been bitcoin. This is primarily a defensive move, one made in November after reducing the company's exposure to gold. Given that strategy, did it work? And by the way the RMSF was a top performer in 2020. Good luck with your BTC position!

[hootza616] 21/2/2021 18:11

I was invested here when they bought BTC but sold wen they did. They clearly do not understand it so my money going elsewhere.BTC will break $100k this year with a few corrections along the way and if they did some research they would have known this and held.ARB is still the best SIPP/ISA BTC play by a country mile. Nasdaq listing imminent and plenty more upside to come.

[lambeater] 21/2/2021 18:01

Personally I was hoping for a pure hedge: A bitcoin purchase that was left to run possibly with a stop below the entry price. However what has transpired is a hedge that has partially morphed into a trade. It is true that you can interpret that trade as a hedge against the price crashing but it is not a pure hedge against collapsing currencies. In summary however, I feel it was a bold and timely initial purchase and I am grateful to Alexander Chartres for that.

[williamcooper104] 20/2/2021 18:53

I think they recovered their initial investment so the holding now is all unrealised profit So holding prior to BTC means it's now a question of how much or little gravy It's not a huge position - from memory no more than 200-300bps of NAV

[zeroid] 20/2/2021 16:18

Any long term holders (holding since before the bitcoin investment) concerned about what will happen to the share price here if bitcoin should crash?

[elmfield] 08/2/2021 19:14

So we are still holding, Good day for us today then. Bit of excitement anyway,😂

[lambeater] 08/2/2021 19:10

From Citywire: "Ruffer... made its own ‘speculative trade’ after it bought a £550m position in bitcoin as an uncorrelated inflation hedge. It has since taken out its original investment in profit after the bet more than doubled, but has kept the gains held in the cryptocurrency." Understandable enough - but not a pure hedge.

[elmfield] 07/2/2021 18:44

Banks are a hedge. Some banks in a year or two could be substantially higher than now.

[lambeater] 07/2/2021 18:29

I agree with you Hootza that it would be better as a hedge rather than a speculative trade. I'm not sure what to believe regarding their foray into Bitcoin, whether it's a hedge or a trade. However the share price made new highs on Friday while Bitcoin rose from its recent sell off so possibly that supports the notion that they do still hold a long position of magnitude in the cryptocurrency. Meanwhile they need their heads examining over some of their stock holdings: Lloyds, Barclays and Nat West for example although those were good gainers on Friday and possibly contributed to RICA closing at a new high of 275p.

[hootza616] 06/2/2021 10:02

Very disappointed this wasn't a long term investment. BTC now at 40k and will do nothing but increase in value.I thought they had understood BTC but I was wrong. I have made £600 here since mid December and would have made £7000 if I had put this money in ARB instead.

[lambeater] 02/2/2021 20:54

I thought they opened the position as a long term hedge rather than a short term trade. Maybe they morphed from a hedge to a trade when they saw the extent and rapidity of the gains. If they bought end Nov at say 18,000 and they made over 100 pc, as this article says, then they might have sold at around 37-38,000. An incredible trade if it's true, bearing in mind also that the current price of 35,600 is below their sell price.

[elmfield] 02/2/2021 18:06

£540 million profit. Can that be true? I guess that is over all the ruffer funds. Guess they will fill us in?

[spoole5] 02/2/2021 10:57

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/news/city-firm-ruffer-banks-750m-profit-bitcoin-bet/

[spoole5] 31/1/2021 00:48

All Ruffer know is it's going up, which means they can profit short term. It is symptomatic of the asset bubbles being created, we all know how they end. Hopefully they won't be the last one in the pyramid!

[pvb] 30/1/2021 23:54

...All this activity on here is a mite disconcerting. ;-)

[williamcooper104] 30/1/2021 23:17

But in a diverse portfolio seeking inflation protection there's a role for BTC (IMO) If central banks ever properly engage in MMT (and the fed has started literally printing money) then BTC has to soar in value - so perhaps it gives protection against the tail risk of very high inflation, especially when this comes from explicit money printing - the very high inflation protection assets are few, equities will mostly blow up and commerical property values will likely too

[williamcooper104] 30/1/2021 23:14

What we don't know is whether BTC is really an epic risk on trade, that will thus blow up if the wider tech/SPAC bubble bursts or actual digital gold (with a lot more vol of course) It's been around 10 years, millennials love it, so don't see it crashing out of existence - though of course it could very well crash

[slicethepie] 30/1/2021 17:37

Do you really think that Ruffer would take such a position in an asset without a massive amount of research. The reputational risk being in a position that you describe as a bubble is massive if it goes wrong.

[spoole5] 30/1/2021 12:42

This bubble will pop eventually and the last in will be destroyed. Hopefully rica will be out by then with a profit. Awaiting a GME disclosure any day now.

[williamcooper104] 29/1/2021 23:59

It's not cleverest Brian's but as I've learnt - listen to the kids Any high pe/growth stock is about the future and your kids know more another that than you do (and it's fun getting their pocket money intro the market)