Raven Prop P Discussion Threads

[stemis] 31/5/2022 16:49

I also hold my preference shares in a SIPP with AJ Bell Youinvest.

Here is what I asked them

I have a SIPP with AJ Bell Youinvest. It's possible one of the shares I have will delist in the future, although continue to be transferable through Crest. What would happen to my holding?

Here is their answer

The stock will remain in your SIPP, but liquidity will be substantially reduced. We can execute a broker to broker trade if you have set this up with the buyer.

Happy with that...

[stemis] 30/5/2022 12:16

Ok. I've now had confirmation that shares held through CREST can continue to be materialised into a certificate as normal.

[kickingking] 30/5/2022 11:36

I think doing nothing is the best alternative at this stage. My broker will transfer my Preference from ISA to my regular account or If I want, will issue certificate. Which ever way, I still hold x amount of shares, regardless if they are worthless or not.

[zangdook] 30/5/2022 01:24

and what is market value when there's no market?

[bisiboy] 29/5/2022 22:35

no you would need to buy them out of the sipp at market value

[ramellous] 29/5/2022 20:29

If they are in a sipp they wouldn’t be able to be transferred anywhere though.

[drradcliffe] 29/5/2022 17:20

I think that's a balanced approach. At this point, best to play it cool and "sit on our collective hands"

[stemis] 29/5/2022 16:54

Yes, thinking a bit more, I guess the statement could have two different interpretations. I think I'll seek clarification from the company.

[drradcliffe] 29/5/2022 16:32

I wouldn't say it is a problem. Without knowing how their secondary trading facility is going to work, then its impossible to say what that means.

If you hold certificates you're on the register which is as good as it gets.

[stemis] 29/5/2022 15:46

The problem with both of these is the comment in the delisting circular:-

Following the Preference Share De-Listing, the Company intends to put in place a secondary trading facility to allow Shareholders to trade their Preference Shares. It is, however, unlikely that any such facility will offer a comparable degree of liquidity to that currently available as a result of the listings of the Preference Shares. Share certificates representing those Preference Shares held in certificated form will continue to be valid and no new Preference Share certificates will be issued. Preference Shares held in uncertificated form will continue to be transferable through CREST.

[drradcliffe] 29/5/2022 15:32

I wouldn't write them off. Most brokers will simply move your RAVP shares out of your ISA account into your associated trading account.

The other option is to request your RAVP holding be converted to certificates, which is pretty simple. It means the shares are then registered in your name rather than your broker's.

[pauldaviesuk] 29/5/2022 12:07

Hi 1knocker - I hold RAVP shares in an ISA with HSBC - they wrote to me on 12-May stating inter-alia
"Currently the stock is suspended, once the above stock line is delisted, these shares will no longer fit the requirements necessary for holding within the HSBC investment product. We'd also like to mention that as a result of HMRC ISA rules your shares will no longer be considered ISA eligible . . . . Therefore, once the stock is delisted we'll transfer all of the shares . . . to your taxed investment account.

Following the movement to your taxed investment account you can either arrange to transfer your shares to another broker or into your own name. . . . . if you still retain your holding on 27-July-22 we will . . . . begin the process to re-register and deliver to you a certificate of the unlisted shares in your own name"

I really have no idea what this will mean in consequence, but have also mentally written them down to zero.

[1knocker] 27/5/2022 18:51

I have no idea how this is going to operate. I wonder if even the professional do? I am not being told anything about what the post de-listing position will be by HL, which presumably holds stacks of these prefs for clients, all of whom would be interested to know. I must admit that I have mentally written them down to zero, and shall regard any money I get back as a bonus.

[my retirement fund] 27/5/2022 18:24

Didn't take them long to delist this and transfer the assets into a effectively a russian obshak did it.

[zangdook] 27/5/2022 17:18

And if you do hold certificates how can you sell them, if the buyer won't be issued a new certificate?

[stemis] 27/5/2022 17:13

As the delisting is now going ahead on 28 June, the following (from the delisting circular) becomes relevant

Following the Preference Share De-Listing, the Company intends to put in place a secondary trading facility to allow Shareholders to trade their Preference Shares. It is, however, unlikely that any such facility will offer a comparable degree of liquidity to that currently available as a result of the listings of the Preference Shares. Share certificates representing those Preference Shares held in certificated form will continue to be valid and no new Preference Share certificates will be issued. Preference Shares held in uncertificated form will continue to be transferable through CREST.

It will be interesting to see how that works and what price levels are established, however I'm not sure how much use it will be those who hold their shares in nominee accounts. If the broker refuses to hold them and Raven aren't going to issue any more share certificates, how is one supposed to hold them if you don't have your own crest account?

[dandigirl] 27/5/2022 16:28

Some suggest a relaxation of the siege of Odesa to allow grain exports and in return Russia allowed to service its USD debts.

Strikes me as mad not to allow debt to be serviced as the losers are Russia’s creditors.

[dandigirl] 26/5/2022 14:19

Delisting resolutions passed easily at this morning's GM.

Bye bye!

[ferrox5] 23/5/2022 12:33

When I was with Equitini I had a share delisted from Aim and was given a certificate based from Jersey. I think it would depend on the market (if any) it would relist on.

[zangdook] 23/5/2022 11:07

In the past when shares in my ISA delisted the ISA provider moved them into a non-ISA share dealing account. I think the rules say they should do it within 30 days, but they may not do it straight away, some of them are not really on the ball.

[rahosi] 23/5/2022 10:57

What is the status of ISA held prefs? Will we be forced to dematerialise out of our ISAs? If so how?

[zangdook] 23/5/2022 10:30

They should deploy all income to repay debt while they're unable to pay dividends.

[gfrae] 23/5/2022 09:53

They might be paying 10+% pa more in interest. Rouble rate presumably only capped on existing debt.

[crm114] 21/5/2022 17:17

If they can exchange the Euro debt into Roubles , why don't they do it? Especially as the rouble is strong at the moment ,the interest rate is capped at 9.2% and inflation rate in Russia is far higher . They could always presumably move back into Euro denominated debt when the rouble weakens ,as it likely will.

[tradertrev] 20/5/2022 12:35

Ordinary shares are worthless now, surely.