Raven Prop P Discussion Threads

[stemis] 14/6/2022 08:34

If ii won't let you withdraw them then they have no choice but to either to continue to hold them in your SIPP or force a sale (assuming there is a market). However the statement "SIPP....customers. Unlisted shares are not considered a qualifying investment" seems to contradict that...

[ramellous] 13/6/2022 17:08

I have them in an ii sipp. I’m retired and have made cash withdrawals from the sipp. I think it means as withdrawals from there have to be cash because of the tax and lifetime allowance implications, a share transfer can’t be made so they’re stuck in limbo until they are listed again.

[zangdook] 13/6/2022 16:08

I would guess they mean you can't just make withdrawals at will from a SIPP like you can from an ISA or a regular account, there are rules about your age and how much you can take at once. I don't know anything about the other two account types they mention.

[stemis] 13/6/2022 14:52

I don't hold any in ii but their comment about SIPPs don't make sense. You can't hold them but you can't withraw them. What do they expect you to do then?

[Edit - I did have a SIPP with ii as part of the transfer from EQi, which contained RAVP, but thankfully moved it...phew]

[Edit 2 - not allowing unlisted shares in a SIPP is a decision of ii, not a feature of SIPPs per se, as per the following

hxxps://www.onlinemoneyadvisor.co.uk/pensions/sipps/shared-in-sipps/#can-i-invest-in-unlisted-shares-through-my-sipp

Yes. If you hold a SIPP, you can purchase shares of a private limited company which aren’t traded on a recognised stock exchange.

There may be some stipulations to buying these unlisted, or unquoted equities which could vary according to your SIPP provider.]

[ramellous] 13/6/2022 12:57

Message from ii in the corporate action section of my account.

ISA Customers
Due to restrictions imposed on ISA accounts, unlisted shares are not considered a qualifying investment. If the shares are still held within the ISA account after the delisting date, we will endeavour to move the shares to a linked trading account, opening one on your behalf if you do not already have one. Where that is not possible, we may attempt to withdraw the shares into certificate form, reregistering them into your own name. Certificates received in respect of ISA accounts will no longer be held within the tax efficient wrapper so will lose any tax benefits.

SIPP, Pension Trading Account, and Junior ISA customers
Unlisted shares are not considered a qualifying investment for these accounts and withdrawals are not permitted from these products.

[wskill] 31/5/2022 17:08

Thanks SteMis was going to call up AJ Bell on my return to the UK this has answered my question,I have more with Barclays Isas I am sure I will get a similar reply.

[stemis] 31/5/2022 15:49

I also hold my preference shares in a SIPP with AJ Bell Youinvest.

Here is what I asked them

I have a SIPP with AJ Bell Youinvest. It's possible one of the shares I have will delist in the future, although continue to be transferable through Crest. What would happen to my holding?

Here is their answer

The stock will remain in your SIPP, but liquidity will be substantially reduced. We can execute a broker to broker trade if you have set this up with the buyer.

Happy with that...

[stemis] 30/5/2022 11:16

Ok. I've now had confirmation that shares held through CREST can continue to be materialised into a certificate as normal.

[kickingking] 30/5/2022 10:36

I think doing nothing is the best alternative at this stage. My broker will transfer my Preference from ISA to my regular account or If I want, will issue certificate. Which ever way, I still hold x amount of shares, regardless if they are worthless or not.

[zangdook] 30/5/2022 00:24

and what is market value when there's no market?

[bisiboy] 29/5/2022 21:35

no you would need to buy them out of the sipp at market value

[ramellous] 29/5/2022 19:29

If they are in a sipp they wouldn’t be able to be transferred anywhere though.

[drradcliffe] 29/5/2022 16:20

I think that's a balanced approach. At this point, best to play it cool and "sit on our collective hands"

[stemis] 29/5/2022 15:54

Yes, thinking a bit more, I guess the statement could have two different interpretations. I think I'll seek clarification from the company.

[drradcliffe] 29/5/2022 15:32

I wouldn't say it is a problem. Without knowing how their secondary trading facility is going to work, then its impossible to say what that means.

If you hold certificates you're on the register which is as good as it gets.

[stemis] 29/5/2022 14:46

The problem with both of these is the comment in the delisting circular:-

Following the Preference Share De-Listing, the Company intends to put in place a secondary trading facility to allow Shareholders to trade their Preference Shares. It is, however, unlikely that any such facility will offer a comparable degree of liquidity to that currently available as a result of the listings of the Preference Shares. Share certificates representing those Preference Shares held in certificated form will continue to be valid and no new Preference Share certificates will be issued. Preference Shares held in uncertificated form will continue to be transferable through CREST.

[drradcliffe] 29/5/2022 14:32

I wouldn't write them off. Most brokers will simply move your RAVP shares out of your ISA account into your associated trading account.

The other option is to request your RAVP holding be converted to certificates, which is pretty simple. It means the shares are then registered in your name rather than your broker's.

[pauldaviesuk] 29/5/2022 11:07

Hi 1knocker - I hold RAVP shares in an ISA with HSBC - they wrote to me on 12-May stating inter-alia
"Currently the stock is suspended, once the above stock line is delisted, these shares will no longer fit the requirements necessary for holding within the HSBC investment product. We'd also like to mention that as a result of HMRC ISA rules your shares will no longer be considered ISA eligible . . . . Therefore, once the stock is delisted we'll transfer all of the shares . . . to your taxed investment account.

Following the movement to your taxed investment account you can either arrange to transfer your shares to another broker or into your own name. . . . . if you still retain your holding on 27-July-22 we will . . . . begin the process to re-register and deliver to you a certificate of the unlisted shares in your own name"

I really have no idea what this will mean in consequence, but have also mentally written them down to zero.

[1knocker] 27/5/2022 17:51

I have no idea how this is going to operate. I wonder if even the professional do? I am not being told anything about what the post de-listing position will be by HL, which presumably holds stacks of these prefs for clients, all of whom would be interested to know. I must admit that I have mentally written them down to zero, and shall regard any money I get back as a bonus.

[my retirement fund] 27/5/2022 17:24

Didn't take them long to delist this and transfer the assets into a effectively a russian obshak did it.

[zangdook] 27/5/2022 16:18

And if you do hold certificates how can you sell them, if the buyer won't be issued a new certificate?

[stemis] 27/5/2022 16:13

As the delisting is now going ahead on 28 June, the following (from the delisting circular) becomes relevant

Following the Preference Share De-Listing, the Company intends to put in place a secondary trading facility to allow Shareholders to trade their Preference Shares. It is, however, unlikely that any such facility will offer a comparable degree of liquidity to that currently available as a result of the listings of the Preference Shares. Share certificates representing those Preference Shares held in certificated form will continue to be valid and no new Preference Share certificates will be issued. Preference Shares held in uncertificated form will continue to be transferable through CREST.

It will be interesting to see how that works and what price levels are established, however I'm not sure how much use it will be those who hold their shares in nominee accounts. If the broker refuses to hold them and Raven aren't going to issue any more share certificates, how is one supposed to hold them if you don't have your own crest account?

[dandigirl] 27/5/2022 15:28

Some suggest a relaxation of the siege of Odesa to allow grain exports and in return Russia allowed to service its USD debts.

Strikes me as mad not to allow debt to be serviced as the losers are Russia’s creditors.

[dandigirl] 26/5/2022 13:19

Delisting resolutions passed easily at this morning's GM.

Bye bye!

[ferrox5] 23/5/2022 11:33

When I was with Equitini I had a share delisted from Aim and was given a certificate based from Jersey. I think it would depend on the market (if any) it would relist on.