Provident Financial Share Discussion Threads

[ydderf] 27/5/2004 16:31

5.5% yield, plus the possibility of £7 plus again after getting past the next numbers......call me old fashioned but - i'm in! the MASTER

[this_is_me] 01/3/2004 20:13

BREAKOUT!!

PFG has closed above the key resistance level of 740/750 which has been seen in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. The price has not been at this level since June 2001. The rocket fuel was provided by the results last Fri. The price is up 25% since the last low in Nov last year.

PFG is finding its core business model works in other countries and its expertise gives it an edge in related markets. It has great long term potential.

[mattarris] 02/5/2003 00:58

Is today's strong performance a delayed reaction on yesterday's news? Is there some other news out today?

[pvee] 05/3/2003 22:43

schober - see financial news on bloomberg.com. I assume this is the same co?

[schober] 05/3/2003 18:24

lilly - why should they restate?

[gurp] 04/2/2003 19:10

crikey - I asked a simple investment question in jan 02 and ww3 breaks out!!!!!
guess we're unusual - got enough money but don't need to spend it to be satisfied, lot's of legal foc entertainment out there, there again don't care what others have got, neighbour or celeb.
a human failing that whatever you give peops they will want more
p.s. what's peer pressure???????????????

[nickward] 10/1/2003 20:24

I was not having a go at you this time JP. We each have our own moral codes and I respect that your beliefs are different to mine. On a financial note, this have been a stonking good short for me and I will make sure a good portion of it goes to a deserving charity.

Regards NW

[johnpaul1] 10/1/2003 00:10

But who should set up these unions ? you and i on the poorests behalf. no they should do it themselves, with outside help avaliable for advice. Also they have set up CU's and are very successful, just not enough all over the country. So PF is wrong to cater to this market then ? They have high rates because of all the risks associated with it. the riskier the outlay the more you want back in return. This is not cynical manipulation of the poor !!

Think of the positives this company allows some people, ie. being able to afford a new 3 piece suite and pay it back steadily. The shop/bank etc certainly wouldn't have lent them the money so no new suite.

Certainly there are many who do get caught up in paying a loan back, but this is the same for business who borrow or even the average joe. i think they do a good job and service a niche. some loose out, but most benefit (need to check bad loan rate though). please dont have a go at me again nick.

[nickward] 07/1/2003 19:33

xyllyx

I am not bitter and twisted. I just do not respect companies that exploit the poorest people among us with excessive interest rates. Why should poor people be made to pay higher rates than rich folks, it just smacks of a two tier system. Debt is a counter productive in deprived areas, a more responsible aproach is the use of credit unions. Credit unions encourage people to save as well as borrow and treat people fairly. It's an old adage, but if you treat people fairly and with respect then they will usually recipricate.

[xyllyx] 03/1/2003 13:07

Surely the point is that these low-income and DSS-supported groups are unable to borrow elsewhere and the likes of Provident provide a service to them. The risks of default on the loans are high and the high level of bad debts must be reflected in the interest rates charged. The costs of setting up and collecting small loans is also high. Individuals must take responsibility for their own actions. Provident is an efficiently run operation providing a valuable lifeline to those who need it.
nickward- why are you so bitter and twisted? johnpau1's comments are not unreasonable.
The footsie beckons for Provident sometime this year.

[overzeal] 30/12/2002 00:29

how refreshing -> a constructive bb

i'm buying tomorrow

the expansion into poland will reap dividends

[johnpaul1] 20/12/2002 16:31

Yawn, no more comment.

[johnpaul1] 18/12/2002 21:26

nickward

i am a realist and and do not look down on anyone - low earners included. so if someone can't pay their bills it's their fault - not the states, the council, what ever. I've never experienced real poverty, apart from being a student, but i can still comment on how the other half live as i rent out a few properties to DSS tennants. The majority are great, it's the one or two who take the p*ss. Now stick your patronizing comments where the sun don't shine.

[losos] 18/12/2002 00:23

andyj - clearly you've never had to try and collect from 'these people' believe me 90% know exactly what they are getting into and 100% know precisely how to avoid paying, even part, of their debt back to the loan company. Greed has a lot do with people wanting what they can't afford, greed which is encouraged by the media, most of whom earn salaries far in excess of what the people the're advertising to, earn. Shall we abolish the advertising industry??

[nickward] 17/12/2002 23:33

Johnpaul you sound like a real facist. I Hope you lose all your money on the markets, then you may learn a thing or two about the other side of life.

[johnpaul1] 16/12/2002 08:48

we cannot patronise these people, wrap them up in cotton wool and take them away to be cared for. they do know where the line is and if they choose to over step then they pay. it is not about a big company preying on these people. next you'll be saying all workers are exploited by there bosses blah blah

[andyj] 15/12/2002 18:23

The point is surely that these companies prey on people who don't have the financial nous to be aware of their responsibilities. Controversial perhaps, but you cannot assume that all people have sufficient foresight to see the falsehood of the promises given to them. It is not so much a question of blame IMO, it is more a question of decpetion and preying on the vulnerable.

[johnpaul1] 13/12/2002 07:44

The article is an utter disgrace. based on what i have read if the provy wasn't around then all these people would have starved to death, so surley the company is doing something right :)))

Seriously, these people would not be able to obtain credit through the normal channels as they would just be turned away by the banks, hence companies like PF have developed. It is the individuals responsibility to make sure they take out a loan they can afford to repay.

I HATE this blame culture we live in. I liken the above to the current Macdonalds story where they are responsible for people troughing too many of their burgers.

Rant over.

[rambutan2] 09/12/2002 00:35

will dash any hopes of getting into FTSE 100 this week. LOL

[rambutan2] 07/12/2002 23:49

this is going to get a dose of its own medicine next week when the share price feels some hardship after this weekends govt investigation news. will serve them right...


The agony of living with debt on your doorstep

Report highlights estate where 65% of homes pay a third of their income to credit companies

Felicity Lawrence, consumer affairs correspondent
Monday December 2, 2002
The Guardian

They know they are hooked, and like addicts they can vividly remember the first time they were made the offer that tempted them into the downward spiral. A brief splurge of pleasure when the door to door loan merchants handed them £70 of vouchers - then years struggling to pay off interest rates of between 164% and more than 1,000%.
For the residents of the Meadowell estate on Tyneside, debt is blighting their lives, a report published tomorrow reveals. The survey of three typical streets on the estate by the Debt on our Doorstep campaign shows that 85% of households are paying nearly a third of their weekly income to door-to-door credit companies.

The average weekly income is £200 a week; of that an average of £60 is going to pay loans with interest rates which are many times the rates charged on the high street. Between them the three streets are paying £374,400 a year to money lenders.

The estate, built in the 1930s when jobs nearby in shipping and mining were plentiful, was devastated by riots in 1992, and has since received government regeneration money. Many of its residents are in council housing and on benefit. But problems with debt are just as acute for those in low-paid jobs, the survey has found. Similar problems can be found on deprived estates around the country, the campaigners will say at a rally in London tomorrow. More than one sixth of the estate's income is disappearing in interest charges. In the weeks up to Christmas, the households expect to get deeper into debt.

Pat is a typical victim of this easy but expensive credit. She had just been rehoused in a council house in Meadowell, escaping from a violent marriage with her two children, when the man from the "Provy" knocked at the door. "He said he'd give me a £70 voucher to spend and it would be £3 a week to pay it back. I had to pay back £85, but you're sitting there with nothing. You're not going to say no."

Pat, who had worked in a hospital before having children, was struggling to make her income support stretch to cover her food, fuel bills and nappies. Before she had paid off her first loan, a salesman from another credit company, Shopacheck, came to the door offering more vouchers. She took them and an other loan to help clear the first. "I knew I was getting into debt but I needed it for the kids, just to survive that day."

Then the agents from the Provy and Shopacheck were back offering things she needed from catalogues. "Hoovers, curtains, what you want to make a home. It was very tempting. You can have it now instead of having to save."

She borrowed to get a TV from Shopacheck with a meter on the top, £4 a week going into the slot to pay for it with interest, and to give her a few hours viewing a day. Before long most of her income support was committed each week to repaying debts. She started to feel suicidal. She knows people who have sold their benefit books, £400 of welfare cheques for as little as £200 cash. She took "fiddle jobs" instead, cheating on social security. But she got caught. Eventually her debts were frozen and she is paying them off one by one, but she expects to splash out at Christmas for the children.

The Provy is what the locals call Provident Financial, the company which has a 40% share of the market in doorstep credit and last year posted £150m pre-tax profits on the repayments it collected from its 1.57m customers.

Rose's partner, Neil, who had lost his factory job and was feeling isolated, borrowed £100 from the Provy without telling her, to pay for fishing tackle so that he could go out with his friends. The couple, who have three children, had to repay £130, and she cut down on food for months to do so.

With £30 of the loan still outstanding, she was offered another by the Provy for £200. "They took out the £30, plus £10 for the first payment on the next loan, and left us with £160 cash. We had to pay it back over 52 weeks at £10-£12 a fortnight. I felt so betrayed by my partner."

As the pattern repeated itself, and more and more of their income was going into interest payments, Rose, a former highly skilled hospital worker, found the stress intolerable. She suffered a nervous breakdown. Receiving extra money in the form of disability living allowance has pushed her income up to a level at which she has become eligible for mainstream credit from banks. They now have several thousand pounds of debts on their cards but, at 14.9%, the interest rates are a fraction of what they used to pay.

Peer pressure


Neil partly blames peer pressure for his debt problems. "I've had Provys in the past and got so desperate I'd break into the meter on the TV to steal the money. You want your kids to be equal otherwise they'll be targets. The kids say, You've got snide trainers, you're a tramp," he says.

A spokesperson for the Provident said that its charges were not high in relation to the service it provided. "This is a service that our customers value and for which they are prepared to pay."

Shopacheck's corporate affairs director Greg Stevens said: "We provide a service on the basis of affordability which is part of the community. The majority of customers give us a high rating in satisfaction surveys," he said.

Margaret Nolan, who has lived on Meadowell for 30 years, and conducted the debt survey, does not agree. She set up a credit union to help those on low incomes but is angry that millions of pounds is going out of the community without employing anyone locally. "Most of these people get into debt because of emergency circumstances - the children need new clothes, they have to make a hospital visit. They can't shop around so they end up paying more. It's a downward spiral we have to break."

Some names in this article have been changed.

Easy pickings for predators

Predatory lending is stripping out money from poor neighbourhoods in the UK, says the New Economics Foundation thinktank. Its new report, Profiting from Poverty, points out:

· A typical APR charged on a doorstep loan of £100 paid back over 52 weeks is 164%. On a short six-week loan of £60, APRs are typically 500%. Loans with APRs of 1,000% are not uncommon.

· Since the 1970s the UK has had no statutory ceiling on the amount of interest that can be charged on a loan.

· The UK is one of the few European countries not to control the excesses of consumer credit companies through a cap on interest rates.

· One in five adults in the UK is systematically denied access to mainstream credit from banks.

· Less secure employment has led to a rise in predatory lending.

· Less than 1% of the UK population uses a credit union, which typically charges just 1% interest on loans made to those who have saved with them first.

[xyllyx] 07/11/2002 17:20

The FTSE 100 beckons next year
At around £7 they are still a long way beneath the all-time highs.