Phoenix Share Discussion Threads

[envirovision] 28/11/2014 00:09

Well theres this big ledger book which they fill in all the clients subs every month and keep a running tally.Then one day they close the book and never open it again so no more clients can pay in any more subs.

[mrmark01] 27/11/2014 20:24

Could anyone please explain to me how the whole closed book policy run off business actually works in layman's terms?

[robsy2] 27/11/2014 15:56

Hey Jonwig
All Life companies have mediocre customer service, their business processes are poor and paper driven. There are massive opportunities to cost cut there and streamline and PHNX have a done a good job in this area.
It's long been my belief that you are better off having some PHNX shares rather than some PHNX policies!
R2

[jonwig] 27/11/2014 12:50

FENDER - yes, a few posters here in the past have complained about policyholders' treatment ... must be especially galling when shareholders are doing well.

The recent presentation mentioned improved customer service. No doubt they have pre-set targets and are meeting them. Of course, saving money in this area is one of the "management actions" which improve the company's EV!

[yupawiese2010] 27/11/2014 11:08

Im sure they wont rush into a deal with there eyes closed, don't forget they walked away from the Swiss Re deal.

[rcturner2] 27/11/2014 10:49

I think WB actually said "make sure the business can be run by an idiot, because one day it will be".

[fender] 27/11/2014 10:48

You are right about the clown element. Been spending the last two months on
a death benefit claim :- letters gone missing, wrong forms being sent and
poor staff on the phone. So much for "10 working days" to receive pay
out.

[devoncop] 27/11/2014 10:35

envirovision,

You are quite correct there and the news that Phoenix and Friends Life were in talks but they did not go ahead with any merger supports the view that Phoenix are only interested in the right deal, something they have made clear in their annual report.

[rcturner2] 27/11/2014 10:32

Worth remembering though if they don't do deals the company will eventually just return all the EV as dividends and that will be the end of the matter. It HAS to acquire new closed books to continue in existence since it does not write new business.

[envirovision] 27/11/2014 10:30

Re. Deals: One thing I like and its track record speaks for itself, Banister and co are not ones to be doing deals for deals sake or in otherwords they would rather do nothing unless theres one awful compelling reason for it.

[robsy2] 27/11/2014 09:59

There you go 800p, that was always a bit of a target for me, once the 600p had been breached.Lots of excitement on the board.Happy Days.
Strong Hold for me . I just hope they don't screw it all up by rushing in on some deal or other . Quite happy to see them not do anything and just run the book down. That is unlikely though. I fear they'll do a deal. I don't see this lot as dealmakers more admin people so I worry that deal making may not be their strongpoint....
One of the things I like about this company is that it's all a big admin job basically , few moving parts , no new business, it must be so easy to run . What did WB say? somthing about how its good to invest in a business that even a clown could run, because sooner or later a clown will be running your business.
Sorry to sound harsh but you probably know what I mean.IMHO most people in companies are quite average and grossly overpaid.
Still a big discount here so we have some safety margin.
R2

[skinny] 26/11/2014 16:32

Thanks for the link.

[envirovision] 26/11/2014 16:20

Today is breaking upwards because this is its first close above 7.85.

[skinny] 26/11/2014 10:45

I too thought this was the high, but it appears that was last year :-

Date......Open High Low Close
25/10/2013 785 810 774.5 785
07/11/2013 777 807 777 784.5
24/11/2014 770 797.5 769.5 780

[envirovision] 26/11/2014 10:34

I'm with you on that one RCT, I think it will really be blown along by the Aviva deal well into next year, the Aviva deal needs all the rubber stamping before its completes so the story will keep resurfacing over the coming months.

I should not be surprised to see phnx top that £9 target and should not be surprised to see some more lofty broker targets well above £10.

[rcturner2] 26/11/2014 10:27

Is this an all-time high now?

Very happy to continue to hold, as the large discount to EV will surely continue to narrow, especially since the dividend yield is still very good at this level.

[jonwig] 26/11/2014 06:55

The diagram on p36 looks like typical "Death by Powerpoint". (So does much of the rest, but I haven't heard the webcast, so I might have it wrong.)

My (incomplete) interpretation:

The first bar shows PHNX's current asset structure (the 35% gearing is correct at H1, the only figure on the page!).

The second bar - I think - shows how they will make an acquisition, or series of acquisitions using a mixture of cash, shares and debt.

The six red bars shows them adding value using various PHNX tools.

The last is the end result.

The question for us shareholders is whether the red bars will point up or down, and whether they can keep the second bar small enough.

[cwa1] 25/11/2014 16:22

Thanks ursus, that's you volunteered to listen through it all and explain it to all us lazy/thick sods ;-)

[ursus] 25/11/2014 15:35

It's stacked full of management speak and many impenetrable diagrams, of course. I wd like to understand the one on page 36. I dread having to listen to the webcast in the hope of an explanation, but suppose I shdn't be so lazy...

[jonwig] 25/11/2014 14:52

Great, thanks! 41 pages, gosh.

[skinny] 25/11/2014 14:46

The from today's Investor Day.

[rcturner2] 25/11/2014 13:52

Be interesting to see what is in the presentation today. They are probably doing this presentation at just the right time.