Phoenix Share Discussion Threads

[fenners66] 13/8/2021 11:05

Porsche 1945

So 599 is your prediction , for "cratering ex-dividend" , presumably sliding down.

"may as well wait till a few months after and pick them up sub 6 "

Thanks for sharing.

[porsche1945] 13/8/2021 10:55

Will get pasted on ex dividend, may as well wait till a few months after and pick them up sub 6. If you look at the charts its so range bound, much more profitable trading between dividend dates, theres no growth so the share price is always going to get a nose bleed above 7.40.

[eurofox] 13/8/2021 10:30

Managed to get filled at 675 whilst on my walk

[my retirement fund] 13/8/2021 09:58

I'm piled up. This is frustrating. I may as well have been out until after thr bloody results!

[rogerramjett] 13/8/2021 09:45

Here and MNG

[woodhawk] 13/8/2021 09:25

Same here, rogerramjet - I'm steadily adding to my pile.

[rogerramjett] 13/8/2021 09:06

Silly low price. Not even ex dividend yet. Already have quite a few of these but just think it's gonna have to be a few more today.

[linton5] 13/8/2021 08:15

Took some more lovely right away out now for the day

[jonwig] 12/8/2021 20:16

IC has a short article on the results, which concludes:

RBC, which expects adjusted earnings of 108p per share this year, sees fillips in M&A prospects stemming from European insurers keen to offload their legacy UK life books, and the approval of a new internal model – which would lower capital requirements. Improved long-term cash generation could follow. Buy.

Statutory earnings in H1 were (73p), so H2 would mean a big turnround. But ... what are "adjusted earnings"?
(There are 10 occurrences of the word "adjusted" in the results statement, and they seem to mean different things each time!)

[spcecks] 12/8/2021 18:40

Also added more today to my already large holding as good dividend.

[linton5] 12/8/2021 18:33

Well done eurofox you won’t regret it I’ve been here for a wee while mind you nowadays what’s a wee while classed as 🧶

[eurofox] 12/8/2021 17:04

entered at 681.2

[cwa1] 12/8/2021 17:01

A tiny sale. Get a life, CWA1.

Wow, that's a strange reaction!

I was only pointing out a factual announcement to holders here-on a board about the company. I didn't(intentionally at least) suggest a scintilla of criticism, nor suggest whether it was tiny, medium or enormous. People can clearly make their own mind up about that...

And my life seems just fine-but thanks for your concerns anyway :-)

[woodhawk] 12/8/2021 16:27

A tiny sale. Get a life, CWA1.

[cwa1] 12/8/2021 16:16

Share options. Exercise and sale:-

[jonwig] 12/8/2021 07:04

"Phoenix Group reveals strong rise in operating profit for H1 2021" -

[jonwig] 11/8/2021 19:44

But you miss the point that it was deliberate. This explains in some detail;

The net adverse investment return variances and economic assumption changes on long-term business of £807 million (HY20: £600 million positive) primarily arise as a result of negative investment return variances arising from the Life company hedging positions. The impact of equity and interest rate movements on future profits in relation to with-profit bonuses and unit-linked charges is hedged in order to benefit the regulatory capital position. The impact of market movements on the value of the related hedging instruments is reflected in the IFRS results, but the corresponding change in the value of future profits is not. Such future profits are actively valued under Solvency II requirements but are not on an IFRS basis. This leads to volatility in the Group's IFRS results. As a result of improving equity markets and increasing yields in the first half of the year, losses have been experienced on hedging positions held by the Life companies, the absolute quantum of which has also been impacted through the extension of our hedging strategy to the acquired ReAssure businesses. This compares to the experience in the first half of 2020 where declining equity markets and falling yields gave rise to IFRS gains on our hedging positions.

Continued strategic asset allocation initiatives undertaken by the Group, including investment in higher yielding assets and credit management actions provided a partial offset to the adverse variances experienced.

[eurofox] 11/8/2021 19:30

This means their hedging approach (unless perfectly executed, which it clearly is not at the moment) leaves them very exposed to any market correction

[jonwig] 11/8/2021 19:26

eurofox -

The IFRS loss after tax attributable to owners is £(667) million (HY20: £486 million profit). The decrease primarily reflects adverse investment return variances arising on Group hedging positions that are calibrated to protect the Solvency II capital position rather than the IFRS balance sheet compared to positive variances in the prior period. In addition, the HY21 result reflects increased amortisation charges on intangible assets and higher financing costs on new debt issuances pertaining to the acquisition of the ReAssure businesses. These factors have been partly offset by the increased operating profit described above together with a gain recognised on completion of the transaction with Abrdn plc to simplify the strategic partnership of £110 million.

Please elaborate.

[montyhedge] 11/8/2021 19:25

Disappointing results.

[eurofox] 11/8/2021 19:22

Strong customer satisfaction scores maintained at >90%, exceeding our targets; our investment in digital is resonating with customers with a 34% year-on-year increase in mobile app logins.

... but we couln't get our hedging right and it turned a good profit into a thumping loss


The IFRS loss after tax attributable to owners is GBP(667) million (HY20: GBP486 million profit). The decrease primarily reflects adverse investment return variances arising on Group hedging positions

[williamcooper104] 11/8/2021 17:01

Add - the integration of previous acquisitions looking good

[jonwig] 11/8/2021 16:23

I can't for the present, understand criticism of the CEO from one quarter here.

There are two aspects, one is management of the current business, and since cashflows seem to be at the top end of own targets, how can anyone complain? The second might be a problem - danger of overpaying for acquisitions. As yet, I haven't any concerns, but it's worth watching.

This was quite nice, as people have occasionally come on here with gripes:

Strong customer satisfaction scores maintained at >90%, exceeding our targets; our investment in digital is resonating with customers with a 34% year-on-year increase in mobile app logins.

[warranty] 11/8/2021 16:13

Ridiculous reaction to results but not unusual for this market I’m afraid.