Personal Assets Share Discussion Threads

[jimbo55] 06/3/2015 13:11

They would be insane to add to their equity holdings now. This trust outperforms when markets go into bear phases. Just requires patience. Personally I value return OF capital over return on capital. ;)

[essentialinvestor] 05/3/2015 19:59

Is this NAV performance good enough? - it's a question which I can
answer easily, just wondered what others thought.

As per my earlier posts RCP looked the better bet trading on a discount to NAV,
the RCP discount to NAV closed even more quickly than I thought.

[elmfield] 22/11/2014 10:15

EI,
You are of course right!
However,
this is really just part of a spread of safer investments,
May one day prove wise, but yes you can make more other places
but I won't take on to much risk when I think things are toppy!
Usually I can find stuff that offers real value but it is
becoming very hard!

[essentialinvestor] 21/11/2014 18:18

elmfield, not sure will their very modest dividend be held next year,
note the comment on today's statement.

They have mentioned a number of times that it is partly paid out of reserves
at even the current modest level.

Holding 10% in Gold over a multi year period looks to have cost them dearly,
particularly when they could have sold significantly higher up and added
to equities at considerably lower levels than today.

All IMV only.

[jimbo55] 18/3/2014 13:24

There's a discount/premium control mechanism on this trust elmfield, so good luck with that. ;)

[elmfield] 05/3/2014 14:30

See we can buy sub asset,
Thinking of adding for want of anything else!

[essentialinvestor] 10/2/2014 15:09

Added a few more late Friday, that's my lot.

[essentialinvestor] 06/2/2014 16:36

If you want to take a conta-view, then the current price with a NAV back to approx July '11 levels looks a decent entry price, just IMV.

[walter walcarpets] 06/2/2014 13:00

EI: yes, very disapponting performance here. Holding as insurance.

[essentialinvestor] 06/2/2014 11:58

Another new NAV multi year low it appears.

[essentialinvestor] 09/1/2014 15:21

BATS is a far larger holding elmfield, BATS hammered again today.

[elmfield] 09/1/2014 13:26

Greggs doing o.k, think we hold them, every little helps!

[essentialinvestor] 09/12/2013 22:35

It's always worth having a look at their equity holdings, although I would
be more cautious on big tobacco with the advent of electronic cigarettes.

DPS their latest addition is a decent longer term bet.

Not sure I see sub £300, but who knows.

[1nf3rn0] 09/12/2013 22:22

Yes it does look like PNL have been far too cautious in recent times and certainly look to be backing the wrong horse with gold.

It's still a fund worth holding as part of a diversified portfolio, but I'll be waiting for sub £300 before being tempted to buy more.

Here's the latest quarterly report
www.patplc.co.uk/secure/documents/quarterly/70.pdf

Gold making up around 11% of holdings, although not much mention of it in the narrative.

[essentialinvestor] 06/12/2013 13:16

That looks another 2013 new low on the NAV as of yesterday, NAV now back to
late 2011 levels it appears.

1nf - from memory that article is from the Summer, we know what has happened to
Gold since.

[1nf3rn0] 05/7/2013 21:25

"There are also some seriously credible professionals currently buying, albeit quietly. One is Sebastian Lyon, the fund manager overseeing Personal Assets Trust, a unique, quoted £600m investment fund whose overriding aim is to preserve shareholders' capital.

The board of Personal Assets is so hell-bent on its cautious, wealth-preserving tack that it boasts about having missed stock market rallies. In its own words, it is a "tiresome holding for lovers of excitement and adventure, who will find it unbearable to see us sitting on the sidelines while the FTSE climbs tantalisingly to its peak".

Personal Assets Trust's excellent performance during the worst of the crisis was largely due to its big investment in bullion – currently more than 12pc of its portfolio. In recent months, as the price has fallen, Mr Lyon has topped up gold holdings. That someone who follows such a cautious mandate, and has done so with such success, is today a buyer of gold is worth noting. "

[elmfield] 01/7/2013 21:04

Bit of a bounce, good hiding place.

[argoal] 27/6/2013 14:18

They suggested in one of their monthly or annual reports (can't remember when) that they were only holding gold until they could see value in equities and would rather hold equities in normal circumstances.

Not sure about holding bank notes. Short dated gilts in sterling or currency of preference would do roughly the same job.

[40t] 27/6/2013 12:27

argoal - yes, the gold and index-linked add up to a sizeable bet on inflation. Moreover, PNL's description of the very large allocation to treasuries in general as 'liquidity' is odd, as almost the entire portfolio is surely quite liquid. Presumably they mean that the treasuries are only there until a better opportunity arises, in which case they are a short term investment - which turns them into a relatively risky asset class in terms of their near term potential volatility. A pity PNL no longer feel that they can risk holding cash, understandable though that is (although if they can hold gold in vaults, why not banknotes alongside it!?). This does however mean that their wealth preservation objective is somewhat compromised as it gives them no choice (hedging aside, which doesn't appear to be an approach they favour) but to remain fully exposed to the markets at times when all asset classes seem expensive.

[argoal] 27/6/2013 11:22

Dash and blast...

The insurance qualities of PNL have not been quite as bullet proof as I hoped.

Sharp falls in Gilts, gold and equities, all at the same time, recently have been a tripple whammy and the FTSE has recovered a bit since last week too.

Nice steady climb back needed.

[1nf3rn0] 15/6/2013 10:50

hxxp://www.patplc.co.uk/secure/documents/quarterly/68.pdf
Latest newsletter

[1nf3rn0] 06/6/2013 21:54

Well you say they've missed a 3 year rally, but the share price has risen around 25% over the last 3 years which isn't a bad average annual return. I've been waiting for a good price to add here so I'm glad of the market pullback and the opportunities that gives. Hoping for a brief down spike below £340. Ideally £333.33, with 3 being a magic number and all :)

[topvest] 05/6/2013 20:12

Reading today's report is rather different than most. Most investment trusts are "cautious" after recent gains, whereas PAT expect markets to collapse anytime soon. Quite depressing, but they may be right?..When will they go "all-in" on equities?...not for another few years or decades I suspect.I suppose they always are eventually right, but they have missed a 3 year rally. Anyway happy to hold shares in this as it's a very safe home for your hard earned money.

[james93] 20/5/2013 07:59

Jimbo55 .... I wouldn't want to sell my PNL now as I suspect much of the under performance has already happened,but given the Trust has a large exposure to some high quality dividend paying U.S and U.K companies even a defensive posture should have proven more profitable than has been reflected in the NAV.

[jimbo55] 18/5/2013 02:09

James93, this trust is overweight in Gold for a number of very good reasons; none of which have gone away. This rally is being driven by nothing other than QE money and fickle investor sentiment; analogous to a pack of lemmings running for the cliff edge. Would suggest you read the annual and interim reports, which do a good job of explaining in some detail the trusts positions and why it holds them. If you don't agree with their thinking and positioning, then why hold the trust?