Patisserie Share Discussion Threads

[daveme] 13/6/2019 17:03

With regards to brokers assigning nil value to shares in portfolios, I wouldn't hold your breath. I had some Carter & Carter shares when they went belly up and it was 2/3 years before they dropped out of my portfolio!

In light of the fraud investigations ongoing here I would think a similar time can be expected.

[nobilis] 12/6/2019 00:00

LJ back in Sunday times . cos he needs the money

All i can say is wnkr

[nobilis] 11/6/2019 23:58

how long before brokers ascribe nil value to shares in portfolios

[lefrene] 10/6/2019 14:20

I don't think "accounting expertise" was required. For well over 20 years now in the pub trade everything sold is logged item by item on the pos till, and at the end of the day it's gets sent to Head Office for monitoring, so that the management can instantly see if there's anything unusual happening, ie volumes up or down for that day of the week compared to that day in other weeks. The same thing happens with supplies, all logged and HO can instantly see if there are any anomalies and calculate loss or profit, day by day. If PV didn't have these systems then that in itself is a huge red flag, but I presume they did have these systems.

As for the auditors, these situations are far from unique, and yet these 'big four' charge eye watering sums, for what exactly? Shouldn't they have been replaced by an algorithm by now?

[monte1] 10/6/2019 14:15

It looks, prima facie, as if he has been a very naughty boy. And, of course, a direct report to the CEO.

[diku] 10/6/2019 14:07

And where doe the CFO fit in all this?...

[monte1] 10/6/2019 13:55

Possibly he was misled - but only because he saw what it suited him to see. The first three lines of defence should exist within the business with only the 4th and final line provided by external audit. The main man is accountable for lines 1 to 3.

Perhaps you can fool many of the people all of the time?

They certainly appear to naturally gravitate towards AIM.

[sandy133] 10/6/2019 13:49

I think Mr Johnson was misled.They did not have the level of accounting expertise in Risk Capital to dig out something like this.
GT clearly failed totally and utterly to cotton on to what was going on.I bet they took Mr Johnson out for nice lunches etc to review the accounts.

I am interested to hear if another firm of accountants has been appointed to investigate the Audits.One of the tricks of the trade here is that the investigations take so long that you are out of time to pursue any villains.This was the case in OEM,where sadly the fact that £20 million was pinched(from a fully listed co.) never resulted in the recovery of any funds save the £1 million that the Liquidator trousered for showing all the wrong doing.

[lefrene] 10/6/2019 13:13

PV was skilfully built up on debt and then puffed up for a float whilst most of those stores were most likely not breaking even, it was almost as if it was a dot-com. Then those remarkable 'margins' that were unmatched by similar casual eating/coffee outlets? LJ happy to take the plaudits and tell the world how clever he was, and yet the people doing the books will have known that things didn't add up. I don't find it credible that LJ didn't know, only a fool beginner in business with no understanding of accounts might have failed to notice that the numbers didn't match the reality.

I wonder how his bakery businesses are now doing? Most likely still supplying the remaining PV outlets, and no doubt chasing business elsewhere.

I find the media trying to re-invent this man as a maligned person who has suffered greatly, distasteful. Now giving him a column in the ST again, perhaps one Gordon Brown might be offered a job by the IMF!

[steptoes yard] 10/6/2019 12:36

Slightly starry eyed view topvest in the weight of overwhelming evidence

[topvest] 10/6/2019 12:30

Well I think Luke Johnson has suffered. His reputation has been shredded and he lost an enormous amount of his supposed wealth. I’m tempted to give him the benefit of the doubt, as if he was involved directly with the fraud he would have been charged. Personally, I wouldn’t invest in one of his companies though as I still hold a bit of a grudge over his treatment of shareholders in Signature Restaurants (owner of the Ivy, Strada is etc.) maybe 15 years ago where Strada was effectively taken from us when it went private and then sold to private equity for an enormous price.

[lefrene] 10/6/2019 11:07

The odd thing is with PV, all one had to do was get in a car and drive around half a dozen PV outlets and it was immediately obvious that their trading levels were dire. I doubt any of the big boys sent anyone outside of central London to check on outlets. I guess the man is well connected as we see his sob story in several papers and the odious BBC. No one mentions the circa £60 million he trousered when the puffed up cake shops were floated, but instead the supposed £170 million he has supposedly lost! The implication being that he too has suffered! There will be some people ruined by this scam, and yet the person responsible for overseeing the company was incompetent and negligent, blaming others for lying to him. Anyone who has run a business knows that those who you employee as managers are the ones most likely to attempt to rob you, sadly one swiftly learns that you cannot trust anyone at all, easy money is too tempting.

[bbmsionlypostafter] 10/6/2019 10:36

I don't think we've heard from a single ex-shareholder of CAKE on this thread.

Did anybody actually own shares?

[eeza] 09/6/2019 23:56

Unfortunately, true.

[pugugly] 09/6/2019 13:21

Possibly compulsory reading for all who invested in CAKE and also for Luke(imo)

Always (in my view) be prepared for the dark side and in this way you might be able to contol many factors or not fall into depression - Here I disagree with the author. Have fun.. !!! - The cynic..

[pugugly] 09/6/2019 09:23

Also ex Sunday Times today re HL & Woodford-

Can anyone say what is wrong with this extract from today’s Sunday Times Money – byline Ali Hussain in respect of managers of HLMM funds?

“If they do not want Woodford Equity Income to become too large a part of their portfolios, they will have to sell other holdings to maintain the existing balance of their funds”

Comments?????

[diku] 09/6/2019 09:20

Yes ST saw it as sales boost...bad experience situation attracts more attention than good experience as there is more to write about all the pitfalls...

[eeza] 09/6/2019 09:01

ST must be desperate.

[lefrene] 09/6/2019 08:49

The fact that LJ seems not to be able to do simple sums is where the blame lies. For PV figures to stand up every single store had to be taking £200 an hour all day every day, an average £1600 per store per day 6 days a week. Blaming everyone but himself is rather defining, and here he is yet again given a pulpit in the ST!

[pugugly] 09/6/2019 08:30

LJ back writing in Sunday Times - Long article about his stress and worries over CAKE - However no admission that he took his eye off the ball - puts blame on people he trusted -

Message received by me and a lesson to all Never take your eye off the ball and question everthing -


Also applies in spades to the Woodford mess - also covered in gread depth so well worth going out to buy the ST if you do not subscribe.

[lefrene] 07/6/2019 23:21

Big Fella, a number of healthier stores (about 30) were sold off as a job lot for £13 million, the rest closed. From time to time I pass the one on Cheltenham High st, usually about 3:30pm, it's still trading but the most I have seen in there is 8.

Is his column going to be called "How to fool most of the people most of the time, including yourself"? or "The art of missing the obvious"?