Paragon Diamond Share Discussion Threads

[lama_rail] 14/8/2017 13:59

I agree with Jack; it's all fascinating stuff on here. There are so many 'facts' that are quoted. Who needs Wikipedia when you guys are around to state so many fascinating 'facts'? I've learned so much about the law as well. Who needs a barrister with you guys around?

[club sandwich] 14/8/2017 13:58

"As anyone knows proof comes from the prosecution side and in the case of libel proof comes from the defence rules where the accused has to show the statements made had some basis to them."

not strictly true, I'm afraid. A simple search on Wikipedia shows:

"English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements which are alleged to defame a named or identifiable individual(s) (under English law companies are legal persons, and may bring suit for defamation[1][2][3]) in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of him, her or them. Allowable defences are justification (i.e. the truth of the statement), fair comment (i.e., whether the statement was a view that a reasonable person could have held), and privilege (i.e., whether the statements were made in Parliament or in court, or whether they were fair reports of allegations in the public interest)."

So the prosecution has to prove a loss in their trade or profession OR that a reasonable person thinks worse of them - it is a DEFENCE to an action for libel that what was said was true or that a reasonable person would think it.

Any attempt to sue 'the group' - now in excess of 60 people - for libel would be bound to fail as that many people constitutes, I submit, a de facto 'reasonable group' of people. Any prosecution would also have to explain away some awkward facts; not least how a company that claims to have raised $53m in funding is suddenly suspended pending clarification of its financial position without a peep out of the Nomad. Given the suddenness in suspension, the Nomad may have trouble explaining how they complied with the regulation:

"The Nomad is responsible to the LSE for assessing the suitability of the company for AIM both at the time of the IPO and on an ongoing basis. A company is obliged to seek advice from its Nomad and provide information that the Nomad may require in order for it to meet its responsibilities."

I would have thought that Lama - with his MBA, MBE, Law Degree and magic wand from Hogwarts - would have known all that...

'on an ongoing basis' - remember that phrase...

[jack jebb] 14/8/2017 13:34

Fascinating stuff. I only look in as a curious observer who was lucky enough to be out of this fraud before it was suspended.

Good luck.

[club sandwich] 14/8/2017 06:53

I gather that some of the Loan Note lot have got in touch to join the CA. Frankly, I'm surprised more haven't. Still, we're now over the £1m mark, so another milestone reached. The ones who don't join will, I hope, be kicking themselves in 6 or 12 months...

[superg1] 13/8/2017 22:00

Just a thought

Are the loan note lot still active?

If so and PM is engaging/encouraging them to stick with him in knowledge of the investigation then that may amount to offences re witnesses.

[club sandwich] 13/8/2017 19:33

Apparently that share price post has persuaded still more s'holders to join the cause. The action against Northland is looking more likely by the day.

[festario] 13/8/2017 19:25

It's articles like that, that make me glad we are engaging a professional firm and not relying on the FCA.

[club sandwich] 13/8/2017 15:11

this is worth a re-read: originally posted by Share Prophets Dec 3rd 2015 - since when, of course, there never *has* been any "clarification of the company's financial position"...

hxxps://www.shareprophets.com/views/16948/paragon-diamonds-the-silence-is-deafening

[club sandwich] 13/8/2017 14:01

"Investors who have lost £900,000 on the Paragon Diamonds (PRG) fraud and bust are now lined up to sue the hapless Nomad"

if anyone is getting sued anytime soon, I imagine it will be TW - but he's obviously not worried about the possibility of action by Northland, and neither should we be...

[pugugly] 13/8/2017 11:52

may already have been posted but fyi link here to the ~SharePropets latest - Well worth a read . As I have said before managed to get out in time but best of luck to all who have lost.

[pugugly] 13/8/2017 11:09

Interesting - A quick Google seach shows that honours inc MBE's can be revoked if brought into disrepute - Hummmmmmm.

[club sandwich] 13/8/2017 10:07

"Northland don't have to prove a thing. It's for the defendant to prove what they said had some basis for what a reasonable person would conclude."

Justification and Fair Comment are both defences to libel - as anyone who actually had a law degree would know.

[club sandwich] 13/8/2017 10:05

Super - I suggest we switch this discussion to the private s'holders FB thread, and that you filter this Lama idiot, as I have. I doubt very much they have an MBE, an MBA or a law degree (I suspect the same degree of delusion which led them to claim so is the same degree of delusion which led them to believe there would never be any consequences for their shocking lack of DD in signing off clearly untrue RNSs). With any luck, one day we'll find out just who they are, and maybe sue them too - as you point out, they have committed a range of civil and criminal offences (assault, intimidation of witnesses, possibly libel: and that's just for starters).

I wonder if it's actually one of these guys:

hxxps://www.northlandcp.co.uk/management/

?

[superg1] 13/8/2017 06:06

Just one more to show the guy seems to know little about law.

"I'm guessing the counter-suit will be at least five million pounds, which your group will be liable to pay when you lose. All Northland have to prove is that they took due diligence and reviewed evidence from PRG, which of course they will have done as it's not in their interest to sign off without it."

No MR Law Degree.

Northland don't have to prove a thing. It's for the defendant to prove what they said had some basis for what a reasonable person would conclude.

As this is already quite public.

Lesotho suggested publicly that all was not well with PRG submissions and direct contact with the mining ministry confirmed the validity of the newspaper article. That's just one point on a list.

ITGT don't exist in the form described and the timing of the demise of the one listed ITGT I can find PRG switched to Acrux. Someone sold 1.1 mill shares through Spreadex. A fact which will be fully recorded leading to the seller if relevant.

So no it's not PIs that should fear Northland imo quite the opposite.

[superg1] 13/8/2017 05:53

CS

It was clear scare tactic by someone claiming to have a law degree. I didn't see a mention of actually practicing law or which area studied. Clearly not criminal law as he then went on to potentially commit offences in relation to interference with witnesses.



Defence in law for libel is simple

"A claim of defamation is defeated if the defendant proves on the balance of probabilities that the statement was true."

Fair comment

"This defence arises if the defendant shows that the statement was a view that a reasonable person could have held, even if they were motivated by dislike or hatred of the plaintiff. The fair comment defence is sometimes known as "the critic's defence" as it is designed to protect the right of the press to state valid opinions on matters of public interest such as governmental activity, political debate, public figures and general affairs."



Didn't know about the the IP plan, interesting.

Why someone claiming not to be connected to the Nomad would wander onto here trying to put victims off taking legal action is is suspicious enough in itself.

I can imagine the chat. "Don't worry Geoffrey old chap I'll sort it, I have an MBE you know"

[superg1] 12/8/2017 17:19

A quick example of DD as this appeared in news and broker notes

"International Triangle General Trading LLC"

"ITGT is an international investment group focused on construction, automobiles, real estate and banking with operations in Dubai, the Middle East and China."

Try google search on that.

You'll get hits on this one anyway but then flip the first 2 words to get Triangle international trading LLC which is a company in Dubai.

oooops.

[superg1] 12/8/2017 16:26

re

"I'm guessing the counter-suit will be at least five million pounds, which your group will be liable to pay when you lose."

So are Northland up for that fight with a total of £685k as of the YE 2016.

Hardly a company set to spend £5 mill on a legal case.

That's right you are guessing now try looking up the facts.

[superg1] 12/8/2017 15:56

Na screw him CS he its trying to put off witnesses/victims in a legal case which as I point out is an offence.

Of course he may be just a lying BS guy making it all up. So on that point you are right just ignore him. If he carries on I'll happily just drop him into any research to establish who he is.

If he is MBE MA etc I'll simply go through the MBE lists and by a process of elimination get a list of names with such letters after their name.

I've stop chatting about things going on but that is a new guy trying to say he knows the law then immediately posts matters which could amount to a criminal offence.

It's fine saying the things can cost a lot of money so think carefully but saying don't bother as the Nomad will have done serious due diligence is either fiction or a attempt to mislead others that may be involved in a case.

All that does it wind me up to do further research.

If due diligence excludes simple research then the nomad is clear but then the whole point of a nomad is to regulate it. The legal advisor does the job of reviewing what the company says doing due diligence on that.

While I can't spell it out now you know they appear to be considerably wide of due diligence on a number of matters.

DD

"reasonable steps taken by a person to avoid committing a tort or offence.
a comprehensive appraisal of a business undertaken by a prospective buyer, especially to establish its assets and liabilities and evaluate its commercial potential."

[club sandwich] 12/8/2017 11:33

Super - you really shouldn't waste any time with Lama. He clearly either is the Nomad or works for them - otherwise why would be bother?

"Northland’s most recent filed accounts show cash at bank of £683k and net assets of £565k. They are regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and will be required to have professional indemnity insurance in place. "

We know rather a lot about Northland, but they don't know a thing about what we're up to. Hence the attempt to spread FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).

I suggest we don't engage with useless banter and let the wheels of justice turn.

My last word: you can't counter-claim just because someone sues you: you need *grounds*, as anyone who really had a law degree would know. What would those grounds be? If we sue Northland and they win, they have defended their business reputation and that's an end of it - and if they lose then we've won, end of. If our claim was malicious in some way then they may have grounds; but this isn't malicious, there is a perfectly legitimate prima facie case to answer.

I will say no more for now.

[superg1] 12/8/2017 10:33

Have you any cases stated I can look up.

And BTW as I said before Nationwide, MBNA, an large insurance company and a local authority all tried to bully me with their big name tactics when they failed to honour things.

Nationwide demand of a large get out fee, MBNA failed to refund, Insurance refused to pay out. Local authority demanding payment.

In the case of the Nationwide it would have cost them 10's of millions as they would then have to pay out everyone.

They had screwed up their wording in the legal document. They tried it on but obviously ombudsman are free if you put the effort in.

All the above lost and it didn't cost me a penny.

It's called bullying the small guy hence all of the no win no fee business that have appeared and are recovering cash for bullied victims. Big names thrive on fear. PPI has left them not so complacent anymore

As you know it flips the other way.

All I'd do on that front is go through the Nomad notes on other companies and news and start ripping those apart too. There are many ways to skin a cat.

There are many battles to be had within a war anyone of which leads to surrender if only to protect liability elsewhere.

I know nomads and I know they are useless.

They are overrun with thin margins, try asking some that have been involved in such business.

The analysts will be under pressure and as a result any old junk comes out as for many years it has gone unchallenged.

[beeks of arabia] 12/8/2017 10:21

these things rarely stay unmessy.

If I was so underwater I would throw a few quid at things at this stage to get my money back. Clubby should get peoples respect for that.