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[hiddendepths] 28/1/2022 15:15

sandcrab - there are plenty of funds out there which want yield but little or no risk. Think pension funds for example, or insurance funds which can only go up or sideways, never down (I have had one of those for decades). For them, convertibles stripped of all equity exposure are a very attractive proposition.

This PANR convertible doesn't fit the bill particularly well. I'm sure they'd rather have more time on them and a higher yield. But it's hard to know if such funds have a position and, if they have, whether it is large enough to be significant. FWIW I'm guessing not.

I have no idea whether scot has bad-mouthed me again for this innocent piece of market knowledge as I've had him on filter for a long time. Not that I care anyway because being vile is his special skill. But he's got previous!

[seejayem] 28/1/2022 14:32

JH from the latest webinar towards the end of the Q&A. 'We want to keep moving at pace. Our debt provider has indicated a desire to invest further should we ask'.

[sandcrab2] 28/1/2022 13:44

I’m sure you guys know what you’re talking about,but don’t see the logic of buying a convertible ,only to bale when the thing is only just in the money
The bond is a sweet deal . Little risk, running yield, possible huge equity kicker
The sort of instrument Buffett got from Goldman when he baled them out

[sirmark] 28/1/2022 13:01

Level2 firming up, if the recent trading is repeated then this is the bottom and a push 81/82 as the us opens I expect a close 82.5 ish

[sandcrab2] 28/1/2022 12:27

Depths, that is what I meant by algos

Professionals guided by computers

What ‘risk’ is there if the bonds are only just in the money?

[forwood] 28/1/2022 12:11

I agree sporazene. Not sure why I even read the repetitive substance and personal vendettas.

Although few are impressed by chart technicals, a glance yesterday would have told you it was very overbought on hourly and daily measures. It might retrace to 78 (it might not) but if it does, I expect it to bounce from there. FWIW, I've not traded it so close to news, FOMO!

[hiddendepths] 28/1/2022 12:00

sandcrab - actually you're just wrong there. Many convertibles specialists dispose of their equity risks entirely and just keep the yield. It's long-established practice. It used to do my head in arguing with some of them about it.

[sandcrab2] 28/1/2022 11:56

Don’t understand this ‘cap’ thing at all, unless you’re some sort of algo

Bondholders have invested for a running yield with an equity kicker

Why would you sell the equity component when it’s only just in the money? Their capital in bond is pretty well secure

Obviously selling by risk averse equity holders

[dhb368] 28/1/2022 11:36

It could just be that for some the 'cap' is hidden by a 'cloak of sensibility' and that others have just lost their dictionary.

[sporazene2] 28/1/2022 10:52

what a load of rubbish. clearly a bit of de-risking and traders banking profits after the rise from ~70p to 84p before expected news next week. Dont mind admitting I have banked a few quid closing a short term position.

No wonder lots of people have stopped posting on this thread.

[probabilityofsuccess] 28/1/2022 10:49

Not strange at all johnswan. Many fully understand the concept, they just don’t believe your application of the theory. I note again your seemingly uncontrollable appetite for wanting to be seen to be “right” and how that appears to motivate your posting timing!