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I think 3 weeks on Monday is going to be an interesting day Dom.
If I'm wrong and they simply reiterate the guidance for this year and the forecast of profit for next, then I'll still be happy, but I have a feeling that they will include a few surprises, and naming Umoja as a previously unnamed partner (as they did with CARGO at the last interims) could easily be one of those surprises.
You know I feel that none of the senior staff buying after the results in April was because they couldn't. Not long now to find out if there was anything in that hunch. |
Thanks Marcus and Mr President Sir. I was hoping for such a discussion of the issue.
I too imagined that what they described as 'the VivoVec platform' was similar to, or possibly actually was 'T-charge'.
So, we may not be clearer, but we can at least see the fog, if not what is hidden in the fog! |
 Dom,
We're once again into the big book of things which I don't know. We're also hampered here by the OXB decision some years ago, to sub out their PR work to that religious order which had taken the vow of silence.
However, there are a few things we do know, which in an approximate sequence of events would be something like this:-
1) OXB sign an exclusive deal with Novartis for CAR-T using our tech.
2) Horses are later traded to make that deal non-exclusive and allow us deals with 6+ others who wanted to use our tech. Presumably Novartis got a better deal to swing that?
3) It becomes obvious that a bottleneck with CAR-T is the manufacturing time of growing on the modified T-Cells as it takes a lot of time and space (the part of the process after us) and these time delays happen during the weeks when the patients are at their most poorly. Something better was needed.
4) The proposed solution was / is to perfect a method to "grow on" the CAR-T cells inside a warm human instead of inside a warm bioreactor. This is better in that there is much less processing time outside of the body (less delay) but there is also less CRS shock growing on the cells in the patient than there would be if you infused a very large number of them into a poorly patient in one go and they all suddenly saw 2kg of tumour cells.
5) OXB have been talking for a long time about our own better mousetrap development, and to give just one reference, note the 2021 presentation transcript here
So, as you can probably see, Kyri says "And finally, we're developing an exciting new innovation, the generation of CAR-T cells in vivo. The aim with in vivo CAR-T therapies to remove the need for all ex-vivo cell processing, by directly administering the lentiviral vector into the body. We expect to be able to treat many more patients and treat them as a first or second-line therapy, rather than third or fourth. This should give better clinical outcomes. To ensure that we adequately resource this new pipeline, we are deprioritizing OXB-203, 204 and 103."
6) The fog of war. On the BB we have traditionally assumed (and when have we ever gone wrong assuming...) that because Novartis have been developing an in-vivo CAR-T using our LentiVector (named T-Charge and now in clinical trials) that the one Kyri previously mentioned and T-Charge were likely the same thing. But we don't know.
7) This brings us back nicely to point 1) and my inconclusive conclusion.
You see I was previously of a mind that our in-vivo CAR-T must effectively be T-Charge as we have such a good relationship with Novartis who have been a brilliant customer for us and of course the FDA approval for their drug is tied to our IP.
However, I think that after doing one exclusive deal with Novartis then doing another deal to make it non-exclusive when they realised how big this market was, I think they are very unlikely to give Novartis an exclusive deal on the better mousetrap.
So, I think there are 3 takeaway point here:-
1) T-Charge may or may not be our in-vivo CAR-T tech.
2) As T-Charge still uses our LentiVector to modify the T-Cells I think it's very possible that they stayed with the same company / developers but that if it is our tech then the deal will be non-exclusive.
3) As mentioned in the previous post, 3rd generation 20 year Lentivector bought in by Umoja Biopharma? That sounds awfully like OXB and that description thins down the field of possibilities tremendously.
So what is the answer? I don't know. |
It is just good to keep an eye on the competition. Usually a good sign when the likes of Abbvie take an option. |
Have OXB publicised anything that 'sounds like' 'the VivoVec platform'? |
Dom,
I am interjecting here in my honorary capacity as the patron saint of hair splitting pedants, but...
Yes it does say Umoja Biopharma (or more fully "This work was funded by Umoja Biopharma, a clinical-stage for-profit biotechnology company".).
But although we know that Umoja Biopharma isn't one of the rough 20 names which OXB have at some point dropped (out of the 35 clients which OXB said they had as of April) we don't know that they aren't one of the other 15+.
If you look at Umoja Biopharma's website it says:-
"our VivoVec gene delivery product uses proprietary, third-generation lentiviral vector technology with a 20-year established safety record."
from
And whenever I see the words "third generation" and "20 year established safety record" I immediately think OXB because they were first and very few other people have a claim to safety data like that. They just don't have the cumulative safety years from all the people in our early eye and brain trials.
So although I agree we don't know it is OXB's proprietary tech, I also think that you can't say it isn't. |
Not OXB though Marcus is it? Why relevant. |
Some of this is down to nostalgia not being what it used to be, but I know where you are coming from. |
It’s a very,very impressive CV.
Back in the 70s and 80s,I felt that the leaders of the major parties and their cohorts were sincere in their views.it mattered not whether I agreed with those views,I believe they had integrity and sincerely believed what they purported to stand for…Wilson,Callaghan,Castle,Heath,Thatcher etc.Now I regard politicians as opportunists for the greater part.They’ll pretty much tell the electorate what they want to hear.They might not subsequently do much about it of course.Quite why anyone would want to be an MP nowadays eludes me especially given the barbarism that can be unleashed on social media. |
If you're not a socialist when you're 18,you haven't got a heart.If you're still a socialist at 30,you haven't got a brain. |
My favourite description of Labour Party policy was made with a short, sharp phrase back in the 70s and they were as correct then as they are today - TO SOAK THE RICH AND DROWN THE POOR! |
Re post 8545, I entirely concur. Middle England (Wales etc) will pay as usual. Enough politics. |
Agreed steeplejack, but why make a bad situation worse. A small (not small) example from todays 'news'.
The Home Office are to accelerate the 'processing of asylum claims' in order to reduce the overspend on their immigration budget. So, they'll quickly make asylum seekers legitimate incomers, and transfer the costs from the immigration budget to both the Benefits costs and the local authority Housing departments.
Madness!!! |
It doesn’t matter whether its Labour,Conservative or Yogi Bear in power.In the 21st Century,Western Governments have been so profligate and created such high levels of debt,that any administration will necessarily resort to high levels of taxation to make ends meet.Europe simply doesn’t have either the raw materials or the growth prospects(even with technology induced productivity gains)to live with such debt levels without increasingly taxing the relatively wealthy.
I’ll shut up now Harry. |
Hopefully the rhetoric is the softening up process so that the actual Budget doesn't seem quite so bad after all.
We (mostly) all know that if you try and squeeze the pips out that tax take doesn't play ball and people change their behaviour, in one shape or form.
The IFS gets cited quite often these days and they are very vocal that you need a broad tax base rather than 'risking' revenue on taxes that people can manage. They highlighted fuel duty as a way of raising a meaningful amount of a broad tax (given it's not been raised since 2011) although that looks less likely given the noise about winter fuel payments.
One thing strikes me that part of the tough talk is to get borrowing costs down. If the Gilt market thinks you will be responsible then yields can fall. That reduces forward costs and also reduces the real losses being banked by the BoE unwinding QE. |
Aye marwalker, that'll cheer us all up. |
Don't know what you all have to worry about after the news of the Oasis reunion next year |
Well, Britain has been going downhill since 1939. Just when we thought we cannot go any lower, along comes Starmer-nomics to finish us off. |
When we stray into politics it all tends to get a bit tribal so best left. I would never have voted for Starmer because of his history, and some of his government picks reassure me that I was correct to doubt his judgement, but he won in our system and I accept that it is what it is now.
I do worry how it all adds up though. I once heard it explained on the TV that government spend of the last 40 years is traditionally a 3 way split between north sea oil, the city of London and then the tax take outside of that. The only other card they have to play (besides occasionally selling a national asset) is borrowing / printing money - and we all know where that leads.
All parties seem determined to destroy the UK oil industry without ever being too clear on what replaces it. Current government seems keener than most to accelerate the closure and has promised £11.6bn to help other countries do the same. So that will be one income stream lost.
The super rich, where I seem to remember 0.1% of taxpayers pay 16% of the tax take, whilst 1% pay nearly 30% and so on. That top 0.1% is 31,000 people and they are not all going to stay in the UK for a punishment beating because of free healthcare.
Other countries will be lining up to offer them passports. I'm expecting to get fleeced, but we will see. |
Nvidia - a share to follow? |
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