Mouchel Share Discussion Threads

[htrocka] 15/1/2012 09:57

Although Sugden and Bo-Lerenius have gone...they're still there in spirit.

http://investing.thisismoney.co.uk/director-dealings/MCHL/Mouchel-Group

Bo-...now holds 45k


Rae...50k


Sugden...135k @ 67p (Sugden paid over 100 thousand pounds for these.....you can now buy the same for 7,125 thousand pounds)) both Sugden and Bo-s bought average buys were at over 1 pound each.....and are both still holding.

[whoppy] 14/1/2012 17:04

Epsom. A lot of ppls peed off too. No pay rise for last 4 years and now they are just ringing it out. Get this, we had to agree to go to 40hr week from 37.5hr with no extra pay because management didn't know how to put in competitive bids and wanted to get the cost rate down, hence divide by 40 instead of 37.5. So we are all working longer for same pay now. If we didn't do it they would just rip your existing contract up and make you sign the new one, or you would be fired. Ppls signed but just do the same hours. Most were working extra anyway, without being paid but management weren't really appreciative of that. Lot of people also left..about 600. They are now asking them to come back as they got no one to do the work..as if they would want to.

Sounds like you getting out of Mouchels was a good move...zombie company now.

[magpie99] 14/1/2012 16:25

Hi Whoppy - I am ex - Mouchel, left them around 7 years ago, so have no idea how they are performing at the moment, apart from the obvious. The colleague I referred to above is also ex -Mouchel.

I have also done work for Atkins, during my 'time'. Sounds like you could well hark from their Birmingham office!

[whoppy] 14/1/2012 16:08

Magpie, I work for Atkins and it is run by a bunch of numpties who think the sun shines out of their backsides and like you say are only interested in the short term profit and how they can deliver as cheaply as possible without having to pay the staff too much.They argue they are trying to deliver best value for the client but the truth is the client ends up with a rubbish job and end up making a claim against the company for things that have gone wrong. They got no idea how to deliver projects and don't value the experienced skilled worker. In fact they have got rid of a lot of their skilled staff and replaced them with agency staff, who cost more but don't stick around to deliver a project because of the poor management so you end up with projects being done by multiple staff and who don't know what's going on. They also send a lot of work to Bangalore which comes back either half done or completely wrong and slows everything down.. sorry state of affairs really. In the legal world they are seen as very aggressive in how they treat their staff and as such have had to make multiple payouts for unfair dismissals. Of course management look after themselves and stick together so their jobs are safe and is a reason why they have bloated costs which they try and cut back at the lower end of the food chain where the real work is done.

Can I ask who you have worked for?...and in general what is it with Mouchels you've heard..is it style of management, treatment of staff, lack of supervision/direction, ruthless human resources, or pie in the sky strategies.

[magpie99] 14/1/2012 15:31

I personally wouldnt invest in any of these support services/construction companies, but I have no idea if you could make a quick buck or not.

I have worked for 3 big names - and am not particularly impressed with any of them.

One thing that I have found in common with all of them is that they dont have big training budgets to train staff properly, even in the 2007 boom year, so you can imagine what is like now. Added to that they have few really skilled people who really know what they are doing. Incredibly, in a department I know of they recently made redundant a knowledgeable person and then later realised their mistake tried to take him on as consultant - no deal.

Another thing in common with all, is that they all emphasise profit, short term profit foremost. Charge the client, get the bill in dont let it be a day late! - So short term emphasis - not long term building up the skills of a team. Profit is their primary motive. Didnt do them much good did it?

I have heard some stories from a colleague about Mouchel, but I will not publicise it here, as I have no way to prove what he said to me.

But good luck with your investment, but poor poor construction industry.

[htrocka] 14/1/2012 12:28

A strong correlation exists between Mouchel and Tribal Group...in that both had a couple of approaches, both rejected, (then TRB attempted a merger, that was turned down by the FSA)... the introduction of a new CEO, a reconstruction, banking covenant extended, tighter fiscal overhead control...eventually continued on a 'stand alone' basis.... within little over one year...the share price, that had fallen from 114p to 28p within one year.... rises 100% as the trend reverses.

[htrocka] 13/1/2012 22:12

ref


'David Sugden, quit after only four days in the job. Mouchel organised a debt deal with its lenders – but at a cost: the banks secured potential fees worth more than £10m and the option to swap debt for equity, up to 5 per cent

Yup, earlier this year Mouchel turned down a takeover bid from construction group Costain at 152p per share, and two years before that VT Group offered 292p. Today they are worth just 6p.

New chief executive Grant Rumbles walked into the storm back in October. The 53-year-old previously ran testing business Exova and worked as head of operations at Serco. He admits he's still having trouble securing new customers. "Until we get our balance sheet strengthened, it's tough to win new, large contracts," he said yesterday. He's musing a rights issue for the first quarter of 2012, but the decision seemed out of his hands when he admitted he'll be having "discussions with lenders as to how they would like to proceed". The beancounters at Ernst & Young are busy cost-cutting. The stock is "only one for the brave", said Andy Brown at Panmure Gordon.'(end of quotes.

a couple of personal comments on the above..The banks refused to deal with Mouchel, as long as Sugden was involved....hence his quick departure. The banks also got KPMG to check the books ..prior to debt approval, the approval went ahead....and as far as a rights issue, as Rumbles says...'it's out of his hands...and in the hands of the lenders.....and they would prefer 'the option to swap debt for equity, up to 5 per cent' ...and no doubt the 'bean counters' must be asking themselves...do Mouchel need 100 different offices?..Interseve has a global operation with circa 2bn pounds of revenue.(2010)..controlled with under 20 offices. Down sizing for MCHL will be a priority.

(not for widows and orphans..)



The glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel would appear to be that the banks, have accepted warrants as part of the deal which enhances the view that a strong recapitalisation of the company is on the agenda and an objective so that a succesful conversion may take place in due course.....that is...'the issue of warrants over 5% of the existing issued share capital of the Company at a subscription price of 0.25p per share,'......That' a fairly big 'carrot'....My guess is about three to four years down the line..

[howdlep] 13/1/2012 12:22

I agree totally re the debt issue. However, it is a fact that MCHL can be taken out at a fraction of the value of one year ago. It is also not a coincidence that the appointed Chairman has the background that he has.
Costs will be stripped, new contracts won and existing costs extended.
At some point there will be press comment re a take-out and the share price will rise rapidly. The secret is to be holding when that happens, but as we all know, this is a high risk/high reward play

[hairballradical] 13/1/2012 11:34

This is controlled by the banks already.

The loan repayments are very stringent but in the meantime most of the gross profit will flow to them through loan charges.

Possible rights issue with resultant dilution ? No point, what would that raise at 3.75p per share with 100% dilutoion ..........£2.8M. Remember that the £87M is nett debt NOT total debt.

The only hope is a takeover but how can Interserve or Costain now re-approach having embarrisngly offered 30 times more than the current price for it less than 1 year ago. Where would there credibility be then? Despite this, I see this as their best hope moving forward.

To trade out of this with reducing order book, pipeline etc could take 3-5 years.

This is a basket case unless you want to tie your money up for some time.

HBR

[htrocka] 12/1/2012 22:51

nice one sally...I worked for Interserve for 17 years...and am confident this will be pulled round.

[sally 1] 12/1/2012 22:47

f..k it i have to say my bit even though i swore i would never post on here again. The fact is the old newS on the rochdale contract is totally misleading. mouchell have wanted out of this contract for yonks its never realy made any money for mochell and the other piont is rochdale counsil are penny pinching nightmares .look where can you buy a bronze plaque specialy made for 100 pounds and the laptops for 600 pounds they were so say charged 2000 pound for what about the setting up with the software ect ect.ONE THINGS FOR SURE THIS COMPANY IS WINNING WORK BECAUSE ITS GOOD AT WHAT IT DOES ITS GOT AN EXCELLENT NEW CEO GRANT RUMBLES AND HOPEFULLY THE NEW CHAIRMAN ALSO. GRANT RUMBLES I HAVE TOTAL FAITH IN. ANYWAY I AM HOPEFULL THAT VERY SOON THINGS WILL TURN . I ALSO BELIEVE WE MAY BE WINNING FURTHER WORK HOPEFULLY LARGE CONTRACTS.THATS IT DONT LOSE FAITH. WE ARE NOT A RETAILER REMEMBER THAT ? ALSO WE ARE AN ABSOLUTE BARGAIN COSTAIN KNOW IT AND SO DO INTRSERVE COSTAIN NEED MOUCHEL MAKE NO MISTAKE.

[htrocka] 12/1/2012 21:49

some very distressed employees...but it's still going ahead.





and a few more...(ps..the councils themselves are being scrutinized by the National Audit Office)



The deeper one get's into the strategy of 'Outsourcing'...a clearer picture emerges in that this philosophy will be expanded as a major part of Cameron's 'Bid Society' initiative...and will no doubt be promoted by the National Audit Office in an attempt to reduce the town hall 'gravy trains' ...by transfering staff and employees into new,'tighter' employment contracts....thereby transforming the social structure as a whole...with the outsourcing companies being motivated by profit.

[howdlep] 12/1/2012 11:05

This is obviously a very high risk, high reward gamble on whether you think that the new Chairman can turn this one around.

There is of course a possibility that existing shareholders may get nothing or only part of the value of their investment, from any sort of rights issue. However, with credit already established with the banks, the Chairman has scope to restructure all parts of the business and/or find a deal/bidder that would ensure a multi bagging re-rating of the stock.

As I say, high risk, high reward. Not for widows and orphans

That said, I have taken a position

[howdlep] 12/1/2012 09:37

Here is the link to that FT article. It is well worth a read:-

[htrocka] 11/1/2012 21:06

..
A good article on the 6th...(out of curtesy...am not posting ...it's a positive write up with the substance of the article is in the heading))



New Mouchel chairman is turnround specialist
By Gill Plimmer


Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2012. You may share using our article tools.
Please don't cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.

[htrocka] 07/1/2012 12:47

The way I see it...(ps...dyor)



the 'New man' starts tomorrow.
The reason I thought this might be worth a 'couple of quid as a punt was that the directors bought over 100,000 pounds worth, with hard cash, at circa 70p...only a few months ago...therefore 5p has got to be worth a punt....and having tracked these for the last two months...... with the 'the new man' in the chair tomorrow..believe this is the bottom..

Let's hope 'Shearer' (the new Chairman) can score some 'goals' and put Mouchel back onto the 'winning side' If this had gone into administration then it would be the likes of Shearer, an ex Delloitte LLP partner, to have seen this stripped for the benefit of the preferential holders. ie, the debtors, bond and warrant holders...with shareholders ending up with zilch, but the fact that he's been appointed to the board, ie, this side of the fence, intimates that shareholders WILL, remain a voice in the outcome. The five main Institutional holders initially asked the board to seek a buyer for the company...which they attempted to oblige with four varying offers...then the power of these main shareholders rejected the final 135p that was on the table....why?... 'YES' there are many reconstructing scenarios going forward (and it goes without saying that the current losses are unsustainable)...but my belief is that due to the past pressures applied by the 'the big five' major holders on deciding the outcome with rejections of the previous four approaches having intially requested a buyer, indicates that the ONLY way forward and a succesfull outcome would be that a concensus be reached by 'the five' to pump in cash for equity. This would obviously reduce debt, increase the current value of their present holding and send out a message of confidence in the company....this is my bet. In hind sight. The decision by the major holder to attempt to sell Mouchel...was a bad one....it sent out the wrong signals and had a detremental effect on the company in it's ability to procure contracts as a consequence...in short..it backfired. ( ALL the potential buyers were expecting a 'fire sale'.) One of Shearers main objectives will be to control the major holders....NOT have the holders control the board. ....unless of course, they come up with the cash... My belief is that the only way the 'big five' can maintain any control over the destiny of their investment is by further support...failure to support will leave the company no choice but to venture down other routes...at the expense of the 'big five'' losing control of not only their holdings... but their voice in the company as well...The 6m shares dumped in the last month by two of the institutions , that has reduced the share price down to current levels...may prove to be ...yet another mistake... in jumping ship before the rescue has been attempted. .... at the moment, it's still afloat...just. (for 5p a share...it's going to be an interesting ride)...good luck every one.





Commenting on his appointment Mr Shearer said: "Mouchel has built a strong position and reputation in the UK public sector consultancy and business services market. I'm delighted to become Chairman of Mouchel and look forward to working with Grant Rumbles and Rod Harris to help bring about its recovery and contribute to its future success."Shares in Mouchel have risen 11% this morning (6th of December to ....9.5p) in reaction to the new appointment.BS

[bagpuss67] 07/1/2012 10:31

Surely if there is to be a solvent restructuring there needs to be some remaining value attributable to existing shareholders. If they are diluted to say £1m (say 20% of the existing share cap) value which is a nominal sum (much less than advisors and bank fees) and as a consequence new shareholders/ banks have the remaining 80% then there would be a restructured Group with increased enterprise value and more solid financal footing. Wouldn't at least a £50m market cap in due course then be possible? I know its hypothetical but on that basis new shareholders now would double their money?

[goliard] 06/1/2012 23:20

Well we need someone to replace dealy and Sally, so welcome htrocka.

[htrocka] 06/1/2012 18:10

I'm taking a small bet on a long term 'pull through'





The fact that Rinrose looked at these at 135p must have given his aquiring prowess a bit of a knock to see them slide this far....but this story has a long way to go....

[paragon157] 03/1/2012 12:14

Yeah .. Dream on , we believe you thousands wouldn't !

[valedo] 03/1/2012 09:39

no there will be a bit more of a curve when it gets there, -something like 0

[paragon157] 30/12/2011 10:48

Lol .. As this finally bottomed out ?

[paragon157] 26/12/2011 10:02

deanroberthunt

Yeah baby .. I'm sure it is along with all the other Jack *hit boring comments as previously mentioned you post on a regular basis on other Threads .. I'm still Lmao at you still .. Chum

[deanroberthunt] 23/12/2011 15:53

paragon...my statement is still valid.