Melrose Industries Share Discussion Threads

[gettingrichslow] 03/5/2018 19:21

Good grief. This board has descended into chaos. Minerve has seriously 'lost it'. Meanwhile is doing his best to support Minerve in that subordinate way of his. B+ and grahamburn have tried to be rational and polite but are up against it. Losos has been savaged and called 'shallow and child-like'. Whatever next? I'm on my way to Tuscany for a 'team-building' event!

[minerve] 03/5/2018 18:34

brexitplus

Losing the argument! LOL I don't believe for one minute I could reason with a bunch of self-centred, half-wits on ADVFN. To me it is good entertainment and fun! ;)

Real life will smack you or a family member in the face one day. Big time! Some nasty tumour will turn-up and it will be "sorry chuck, cannot do, we have no money, get some popcorn and watch your family member decay right in front of you" and on the same day why not join in the celebrations of the next billionaire buying an island because it is all good isn't it!

ROFLMAO!

[minerve] 03/5/2018 18:27

brexitplus

Answer the question, yes or no? Is society broken if people are receiving £47m each and children are dying of cancer because the NHS cannot afford to pay?

Simple answer, yes or no? Is society broken or not? Yes or no?

[meanwhile] 03/5/2018 18:22

Graham, you are an 'I deplore it and I do my best' denier of the greed that supports you.

[brexitplus] 03/5/2018 18:22

Minerve

I don’t understand the connection. Are you saying if the Melrose Directors didn’t accept the £40 million, which is in shares not cash, that money would go to the NHS, or another government department.

Apples and pears I think. A bit like MW’s average and range.

Besides the money is spread over a 5 year period, ie. £8 million per year, and based on performance.

And you are jumping to conclusions re bonuses, redundancies, and just about everything else.

[minerve] 03/5/2018 18:19

➡️ I fully concur with your view that executives who perform both in terms of profit
➡️ and corporate responsibility towards ALL stakeholders should be rewarded for just
➡️ that

Completely agree. But it doesn't have to be £47M each and if it has to be at such a level then something is completely wrong with the characters and values of the individuals concerned and we should be raising questions whether we want these characters in positions of power and control in our society.

I would also add that those who look forward to losing their jobs over the next 12 months at GKN would debate "responsibility to ALL stakeholders". One may have the view that additional bias has been created towards a minority set of stakeholders.

➡️ At least that approach seems not to elicit foul-mouthed responses unlike (what I
➡️ had hoped) were my own thoughtful, fact based occasional interjections.

What facts? Where are the facts?

➡️ You are probably correct that people who become angry with reasoned arguments tend
➡️ to have little evidence to support their tirades and/or minimal faith in the
➡️ strength of their beliefs and assertions.

Au contraire grahamburn. I would say those that continue to shift focus from the argument to other things are those who cannot argue and provide decent rationale as to their views. Selective ignorance doesn't make the issues go away and wishful thinking and excuse making doesn't either.

One fact from today showing people are starting to hold my view:

Inmarsat loses shareholder vote on pay - FT

Another article from yesterday:

"The company behind the £8bn hostile takeover of UK engineer GKN faces a potential shareholder rebellion after an influential adviser called on investors to vote against “excessive payouts” to Melrose Industries executives."

Where are your facts? Where is your evidence?

[grahamburn] 03/5/2018 17:55

brexitplus.

I forgot to respond to your thought in 3798 about the upcoming Melrose trading update. I have 11 May on my calendar for that which, I guess, was the date last year.

I fully concur with your view that executives who perform both in terms of profit and corporate responsibility towards ALL stakeholders should be rewarded for just that. Similarly, I have argued strongly (and voted accordingly) against corporate greed where excessive remuneration is unearned or executives have been rewarded for failure as they exit stage left.

I sincerely admire your patience and persistence in responding to uncouth and argumentative individuals. At least that approach seems not to elicit foul-mouthed responses unlike (what I had hoped) were my own thoughtful, fact based occasional interjections. You are probably correct that people who become angry with reasoned arguments tend to have little evidence to support their tirades and/or minimal faith in the strength of their beliefs and assertions.

One day I genuinely hope that this board will revert to a sensible and balanced discussion of the pros and cons of the company without rambling theses on societal ills.

[minerve] 03/5/2018 17:51

brexitplus

Do you think society is working when three executives get paid £47m each in a year and children are dying of cancer because the NHS will not fund a drug?

Answer the question, yes or no?

[meanwhile] 03/5/2018 17:51

I believe the Melrose Directors are driven mainly by greed, the desire to have more.
They don't need the £40M in order to live comfortably, or as an incentive to do well, since they each hold huge numbers of shares giving them grand returns on any success they achieve. I think some refer to this as "skin in the game".
They desire the £40M because they will have made £XB for the shareholders and they want, and think they deserve, a little share of it.
This is greed. I suffer from it, as many people do. Some excuse themselves saying" I only want enough to be comfortable," (yes, in kent first, then in the South of France, then Barbados) or "I've worked hard for it, I've taken risks", but really it's greed.
I think some contributors here should just admit it's greed, but this isn't necessarily condemning it.

[minerve] 03/5/2018 17:10

brexitplus

I am not going to agree with you with respect to Melrose. There are plenty of people who work their socks off for a lifetime and don't earn what those directors made in a month last year.

If I think there is injustice and unfairness in society I will criticise anyone, from a family member to The Queen of England.

The truth hurts and sometimes people need a dose of reality in their fantasies.

We cannot have a system that wants to reduce a budget by £500K, and in so doing, effectively terminating the lives of 50 children in the UK - on the one hand, and on the other, remunerating three individuals with £47M each.

Sorry, but will never buy that argument! Completely immoral and anyone who partakes in it is just as guilty as the next person.

I think you need to look at yourself and where your values are. Making excuses is very easy to remove one's participation in immoral activity. Selective ignorance is no excuse either.

[minerve] 03/5/2018 16:28

brexitplus

Let us not argue over our differences.

Did you get chance to look at the book any further?

[minerve] 03/5/2018 16:25

Buffet hasn't given all his cash to charity and a lot of the gifting is not going to be done until he is 6ft under.

What's Buffett got to do with it anyway?

[brexitplus] 03/5/2018 16:22

Well give all your cash to the charity like Buffett then.

[minerve] 03/5/2018 16:11

brexitplus

I run a charity.

[brexitplus] 03/5/2018 15:59

Minerve, just give all you have away. It will make you very happy, I’m sure.

[grahamburn] 03/5/2018 15:25

Day trading could be regarded as one of the most parasitic non-productive forms of investment that is available to "capitalists" which should be controlled and regulated.

Oh yes, and that's similar to hedge funds buying shares from long term investors in GKN, but then those long term investors decided to sell them anyway for a variety of reasons, so we end up going round in circles about the benefits and evils of investment and capitalism and socialism and all those other nasty -isms.

PS on 3804. Without entrepreneurs and risk takers, the best inventions created by scientists and researchers are unlikely to be turned into useful everyday products, medicines etc.

PPS But this exchange is really not going anyway as BB's will never change anyone's mind if that mind is fixated in one antagonistic thought plane.

[brexitplus] 03/5/2018 14:57

Champagne socialist then.

“Modern day entrepreneurs are only creating false demand for stuff we don't need!”

Sounds like a planned economy to me.

Saw it in Rumania in 1979. Most miserable people I ever saw.