Lloyds Banking Share Discussion Threads

[aceuk] 19/5/2024 13:40

Pierre I have refrained from comment these last weeks but your argument defies logic and what actually happens.

I have not looked at any charts prior to this post but I believe the post GFC high was before any buy-backs were announced or carried out.

Every ex-dividend day the market adjusts the share price at open to take account of the fact that on that day the new buyer is not entitled to receive that cash pay-out. It may be that on that particular day the price falls further or recovers more than the dividend pay-out subject to other events happening that day.

Despite however many years of buy-backs that have passed or however many billions of shares bought back the price has moved, moves and will move on myriad other factors and the buy-back is just one of those factors.

Your argument leaks more water than it holds.

[mikemichael2] 19/5/2024 12:21

When you think about it, being paid to have children is bonkers, it is your choice, I shouldn't be paying for your brats!!!

[pierre oreilly] 19/5/2024 12:12

Dex, If a co has 500m spare cash worth say 40p per share.If it pays it as a special divi of 40p, then xd the price drops 40p. You have your mits on 40p, but your shares are worth 40p less. If it returns that 40p as a half bill buyback over a year, then (assuming most goes through the market) the operation and primary function of sets via its design will without question raise the price from what it would otherwise be for each buy. It's purely the mechanics of sets, supply v demand in practice, increase demand increase the price to re-establish equal supply and demand. What you rattle on about is the secondary function of how the market views the prospects at the higher price (which is anyone's guess).You cannot - logically at least- sat xxx had a buy back and the price went down therefore buybacks don't work. The price went down less than it otherwise would have done.

[gotnorolex] 19/5/2024 11:26

Sir James Ratcliffe is now a Labour apologist! Had they still been in power over these last fourteen years he'd still be Jimmy Boy eating his own offal's! He still does not realize Labour want to snuff out the petrochemical energy industry, which will send him to the St Mungo's soup kitchen for dinner and a reserved pavement spot under the arches of Charing Cross to erect a homeless tent!
There by the grace of the Torrie's goes a vagrant from Hull! (The face does fit)

[stonedyou] 19/5/2024 06:14

Current Kiev regime rooted in coup — Putin

The Russian leader blamed Kiev’s sponsors in the West for organizing this coup, saying they escalated it into an armed conflict

HARBIN, May 17. /TASS/. The current Kiev regime exists only because of a coup d’etat, Russian President Vladimir Putin told reporters.

"All current authorities in Kiev stem from a coup d’etat. That is the source of the current regime in Ukraine," he emphasized.

The Russian leader blamed Kiev’s sponsors in the West for organizing this coup, saying they escalated it into an armed conflict. "That was their fault. They are now trying to <…> shift the blame onto Russia for the tragic events of today. This is a result of the policy they have been pursuing," he concluded.

[diku] 18/5/2024 22:45

Buy backs not the only reason share price going up...it is just in the tail wind support of rates staying higher for longer which is good for bank margins while defaults are stable...buybacks is taking up the slack to mean price...recently banks have also upped mortgage rates and savings rates are going down...the moment the market senses rate cuts are coming 100% or defaults rising the sell off will begin...

[davius] 18/5/2024 21:55

Phoenix, I agree, if it were straightforward then every time a buyback were announced people would pile in. Same as the myth that whenever a share is heading towards ex-div day the share price rises.

My point, if poorly made, was that reducing shares in issue increases the proportion of the company that each shareholder owns. That cannot be disputed or denied. And yes companies continue to issue new shares for awards, etc, but they'd be doing that anyway, further diluting existing shareholdings. And I agree, it doesn't follow that a buyback leads to an increase in share price. The market isn't that predictable.

A special dividend, once paid, is gone forever, with no forward value to the shareholder. Fine for most who have the attention span of a goldfish. I play the long game and so applaud them (buybacks).

[mr.elbee] 18/5/2024 21:20

never......... you are quite right

but what if the enlightenment is already there?

the pros in the stock market lark will tell you that the main fault of amateurs is wanting to be always right , to prove their judgement is the best there is.

Quite often this goes against actually making money.

[dexdringle] 18/5/2024 17:32

《《 or someone who is enlightened? 》》

Censorship never leads to enlightenment.

[jrphoenixw2] 18/5/2024 16:54

Davius #28806: 'Buyback of £2bn reduces shares in issue by 5.67%'.

I don't think buy-backs being 'an automatic good' is as simple as that. While a buy-back is happening the company usually continues to issue new shares, pay-awards and so on, rediluting the market capn.

I've seen buy-backs where shares have been bought when they were well-valued already, rather than materially below fair-value. I've also seen buy-backs where at the end of the programme the price is lower than it was at the beginning. It doesn't need that to happen a second time to see the myth busted.

The Board cannot predict a good part of all of^. That is why many investors who have watched buy-backs often over years, prefer cash dividends and hence having discretion over if, how and when to reinvest it.

[mr.elbee] 18/5/2024 16:21

or someone who is enlightened?

[dexdringle] 18/5/2024 16:02

《《298; If they spend the £2bn on a special dividend, or a buy back, it's still gone, it makes no difference to what the company is worth afterwards 》》299;

...other than when it is paid out as a dividend we, as a shareholders, now have £2 billion in our pockets vs having empty pockets.

The filter button. The last refuge of the argument loser 🤣