Lightwaverf Share Discussion Threads

[sinkyj] 19/11/2019 10:56

"This will allow the Lightwave Link Plus control hub to host the Honeywell Home by Resideo control protocols." - LW news release.

I'm sure they like the products, they are good, and a fair bet they may purchase the company and Resideo control protocols be put inside the Lightwave products. I do hope so for users and shareholders alike. Lightwave strategy meant it could never survive as it is not part of a bigger ecosystem. Fundamental error of strategy driven by ego, and a lack of understanding which way the market was going. They could have made Hive compatible product and sold to every British Gas customer, just the swtiches and sockets.

[whoppy] 19/11/2019 10:43

sinkyj, It's Lightwave protocol operating third party product the Honeywell TRV..and yes Home Evo works Lightwave kit too, visa, versa. Resideo are looking to operate Lightwave power sockets and light switches. They asked Lightwave to show that they can operate the Honeywell TRV as a starter to show compatibility between the products. It's the Lightwave products they like. Lightwave are also supplying European sockets and light switches so wider scope. I guess double sockets are the norm these days. My house doesn't have any single sockets. The issues are scaling the business. Reviews from customers about the products are 4 and 5 star.

[sinkyj] 19/11/2019 10:40

Whoppy,

Take a look at what's available elsewhere in the world. All tightly integrated and super easy to use and install. Aqara have 1.3 million users. Just the lighting supplier to the system turned over $100m+ last year.

This is what is needed to make smarthome succeed.

Lightwave in the last 6 years have created a new hub, a new light dimmer, a socket (only a double one, nothing for a single socket outlet) and a relay.

[clocktower] 19/11/2019 10:02

Great debate about the core issues - thanks sinkyj in particula.

Some would like to think the following:

[sinkyj] 19/11/2019 10:01

16 hour flight from LA, athnotts. The curse of in flight wifi. Normal service resumed now.

The board comment, almost verbatim, was from a member of the board that employed the ex Samsung guy! So he must know the dynamics, and why it was important the experience was at board level. One thing that people will tell you time and time again about LW, is the board is very remote from the operation of the company. That's nearly always fatal for a company this small when it needs guidance. Only having "approved" conduits for information does not make for a rounded picture of the company to make the decisions.


Whoppy, I think your comment sort of explains why what I say about the technology is true. I'd sort of just like to buy a smart blind as a complete product, a nice looking switch from another company press a couple of buttons on each of them and they work together and with Alexa. If you'd seen it done properly, you'd understand how far removed from a satisfactory user experience what you describe is. These tenders were for professional installers to install equipment in normal peoples homes. IFTTT? API? Relay?

The protocol is worthless because about 10 products in the world are compatible with it. LW are the only member of the club. You'll obviously note LW are sending the Honeywell protocol, not Honeywell using the LW protocol.

[whoppy] 19/11/2019 09:28

Don't see a problem with Lightwave controlling third party kit such as operating an automatic blind. Surely you just use a Lightwave relay to power the blind? Loads of people do that, or for anything they want to operate such as outside lighting or water feature etc. Not sure how the protocol is worthless. Lightwave have demonstrated that they can operate third party products such as Honeywell TRV. They are also now compatible with Smartthings hub so you can operate Lightwave kit through the Smarthings hub and app. Obviously it works with all the other voice controlled platforms and Homekit. It does IFTTT, You can now also do your own coding through the Lightwave hub with Smart Series API.

[athnotts] 19/11/2019 08:42

don't you have a day job sinkyj? ;-) above and beyond for the rest of us with less info so thanks. that's right re the board by looks of it though the company does have senior sales and marketing execs not on the board that do have consumer experience, that can be seen on linkedin. but the arguments you make are technology mainly and i can see why you think there is not much scope beyond resideo. glad I got out some time ago, i'm only really here as I have a bunch of it in my house (and like it) and was wondering if/when to jump back in. not today!

[athnotts] 18/11/2019 20:42

yawn... either an acquirer will want the protocol or they will not and so will assume engineering effort will be needed to switch over. that's not going to drive a deal, it's just one asset off the list or not, as they determine. i'd say end customers don't really know or care about protocols, just that the devices work.

[clocktower] 18/11/2019 20:36

Another failed CEO, as expected but whoppy you might consider that Andrew Pearson might be the better bet, as he is now CEO of MNO and st least you have a slim chance of it being a 10 bagger.

[whoppy] 18/11/2019 15:21

sinkyj, Z Wave has a better range than Zigbee. Zigbee is too close to wifi protocol and interferes with it and has less range.

[sinkyj] 18/11/2019 15:06

As the creator of both lightwave protocols I would be obviously very pleased with your opinion. However, I'd have to disagree, technically with you.

[whoppy] 18/11/2019 14:53

Zigbee is IEEE802.15.4 based specification. Not as good as Lightwave RF protocol. Yes you can pass the signal through a number of intermediary devices but coverage is poor and it interferes with wifi. Loads of complaints about Hive thermostats communicating with Zigbee hubs and thermostat batteries running out..I wouldn't be surprised if Hive dump the Zigbee hub for something better like LightwavRF. Hive can do power and lighting aswell then and add further products. Z wave is a bit better but not great..

[sinkyj] 18/11/2019 14:35

Whoppy, Hive uses Zigbee as their RF protocol. I've consulted for them in China. It's a mesh network protocol. It can under the right circumstances network an entire hotel or apartment block. Not what I'd use now but it's adequate. I think you've listened to a technical director of lightwave that had no technical qualifications or experience.

[whoppy] 18/11/2019 14:22

Hive uses wifi. That's why they only have one product. It's not suitable for power sockets and light switches. It doesn't have any range and can't penetrate walls and floors. That's why Resideo use the same RF 868Mhz as Lightwave. If Hive did the same they could have sewn up the smart home market for power and lighting.

[sinkyj] 18/11/2019 14:17

You must understand the tech stack, Whoppy. It's not compatible with Hive etc. They went down a tech cul de sac. Had they made items compatible with the majority of smart home products then many buyers might be possible now.

[whoppy] 18/11/2019 13:50

They have distribution across Europe so it's not just UK products. They have an agreement with Techdata for European distribution. Products are not just UK specific. I would say a larger company would want to add power and lighting products to their range. It will be someone with a large existing customer base. Security provider, Utility provider, House builder, Electrical / plumbing trader, a big retailer, or a tech company. More likely a tech company, or Resideo. Hive only have a smart thermostat and look at what they've done. If they added power and lighting they would do well. Resideo don't have much other than smart thermostat/TRV and security and energy monitoring.

[athnotts] 18/11/2019 13:26

as sinkyj says the uk specific nature of the products rules out lots of large players, unless they see value in the people, ie as an r&d type acquire to put them to work on a broader product set. it's hard to see further than anyone other than resideo or someone like that. maybe they are hoping they can attract the likes of legrand (they bought smart home company netatmo last year). i can't see it being a large investor, that would have happened before now if it was going to, ie i assume they have been trying (they should have been). it will be a buyer who thinks they can do something with the people and product assets.

[clocktower] 18/11/2019 13:26

Whoppy,I hope you are correct but I am sorry but you are wrong in respect of what they can do - over many years I have seen all sorts of things done and at a substantial cost to myself - having been mislead, lie too and defrauded. The regulators go along with all sorts rather than taking a stand and dealing with directors and concert parties that often act as shadow directors, present at every board meeting,even when provided concrete proof of wrong doing.

That said, there are one or two honest directors around, and I hope you are invested in a company that have some of them.

If you have held this stock, for as long as you have posted, I would venture to assume you are sitting on a large percentage loss, even if your total loss might be small.

Good luck, and I am sure all long term posters on this thread truly wish all holding PI`s come out of this well.

[whoppy] 18/11/2019 13:00

They need a buyer or another larger investor who's willing to put a fair lump in so CC become a smaller shareholder.

[sinkyj] 18/11/2019 12:40

Good luck Whoppy. Many reasons for delisting. It's much cheaper and easier to raise off market now. On going costs would be lower. Later sale easier. I've no special information about the current situation, but I can tell you I know it was a frequent board discussion. You can do what you want with that information.Sale to Resideo is also likely. Nobody currently appears to think it will be at any premium to today's price though. One strange thing about the Resideo tie up : As i said before they have now successfully integrated with the Resideo heating system and are selling Resideo heating valves. Under normal LW rules that would require a share pumping announcement. None has been forthcoming. It's almost like they don't want the share price to rise.