Legal & General Share Discussion Threads

[pvb] 20/1/2024 18:16

MCunliffe1 16 Jan '24 - 15:37 - 4447 of 4488

zac: NEVER challenge Pierre to a 'math-off' :-)

Oh, I'm game! :-)

[zac0_4] 20/1/2024 17:24

Yes. Perhaps my post hasn’t come across as intended. What I mean is you may think you’re doing ok when you focus on the dividend in your total return figures. I haven’t got my figures to hand but they’re not a million miles off the following:

My capital return -3%, dividends to date +45%, total return +42%

However, i’ve held this for years.

If I look at LGEN average annualised return over say a 10 year period it’s 5.8% pa. So a total return of 75% over 10 years.

Compare that to the L&G International Index Trust. A simple global equity tracker. It’s delivered a 10 year average of 11.7%. So, 202% over the same period.

That’s what I mean when I say dividends can mask overall returns.

[ayl30] 20/1/2024 15:11

Don't understand, if you measure on a total return basis ,(div + capital growth) then it's a comparable measure across all shares

[zac0_4] 20/1/2024 14:41

Dividend paying shares / trusts currently make up about 25% of the overall value of my portfolio. LGEN is my largest dividend paying holding. My intention is to reduce this level of exposure to below 20% by year end.

I'm now firmly in the camp that believes receiving a regular dividend simply masks poor overall long term performance.

[spud] 19/1/2024 11:33

I was asked to create a thread some time ago for this very purpose and as you can probably guess, it wasn't used.......



spud

[cwa1] 19/1/2024 08:55

All, back in "working hours" now, so please keep it on-topic for LGEN. Thank you.

Thanks for that broker upgrade from JPM dplewis1

[apparition1] 19/1/2024 08:52

Hi GN,
Like you I would like to put more money in my wife's SIPP to reduce death duties however my AJ Bell paperwork says: -
"Excess Contributions
The clearest reason for a refund is when it meets the 'excess contribution condition'. This can only apply to personal contributions: refunds not only can but must be made where the member has made contributions in excess of their UK relevant earnings for the tax year"
So I guess we are stuck with the £2,880 limit.

[dplewis1] 19/1/2024 08:12

JP Morgan raises target price to 305p from 295p

[tag57] 19/1/2024 08:08

GN the tax contribution on £2880 is the maximum contribution you can get with no earnings. You can put more in but this doesn’t make sense due to pension access restrictions. What about your partner or any children, could you make contributions on their behalf’s? Just a thought.

[gurunostradamus] 19/1/2024 07:22

Thanks but I am already got the full allocation in the ISAs. I just need to know what’s the maximum I can put into SIPP above the tax relief limit of £2880 as I don’t have earnings apart from company pension.

[cassini] 19/1/2024 00:14

#4477,

Not sure why anyone would want to not obtain tax relief in a SIPP. That's the whole point of them. The only thing that springs to mind is avoiding withholding tax on foreign dividends.

If one's income exceeds £12,570 then one will pay income tax when withdrawing money from a SIPP (OK, to be exact, on 75% of any withdrawal), but then why not put money into an ISA instead if not getting tax relief - any income from an ISA won't be taxed at all.

Ordinarily the only way one doesn't get tax relief when transferring money into a SIPP is to transfer in money from a pension from elsewhere - in which case the money has already had tax relief applied to it at some point. I don't think there's any limit on this but I don't think maybe that's what you mean?

[gurunostradamus] 18/1/2024 23:51

Zac

For a non earner is there a SIPP limit of annual gross contributions? £2880 is for obtaining tax relief.

[castleford tiger] 18/1/2024 16:47

zac

thank you

[dplewis1] 18/1/2024 11:40

BofA Global Research raises target to 272p from 260p

[zac0_4] 18/1/2024 11:35

CT - my earlier figures related to PHNX.

My recent post regarding annualised performance was for Legal & General International Index fund and Legal & General share itself

[castleford tiger] 18/1/2024 11:27

zac
which company are you talking about please?

[mcunliffe1] 18/1/2024 10:51

Just to lob a point into this debate. Receiving dividend income at the expense of long term capital erosion goes by the name of The Annuity.

I hold L&G and intend to still be holding them when I croak. I hope the capital is maintained and it probably will be as I draw-down modestly from my SIPP mainly because I hate paying tax. Hindsight would have caused me to put more into an ISA S&S than I have, perhaps at the expense of the Std. Life pension I had for 40+ years.

[zac0_4] 18/1/2024 10:27

PO - my main tracker holding is in Legal & General International Index. There is no charge to take out any amount. 10 year annualised return is 11.5%. LGEN is 5.6%.

Fund charge is 0.07%. Above performance figures are nett of this charge.

I agree with your comments regarding daily share price movements, however I see no point in receiving a dividend income at the expense of long term capital erosion.

I hold both the tracker above and LGEN.

[pierre oreilly] 18/1/2024 09:33

Zac, but if you hold income shares for the length of time they're held in a diy isa pension replacement, then the daily weekly moves don't matter. It's not as if you ae going to sell that income stream (unless something really bad turns up). So what's the value of lgen over 5 years, 10 or 20 years?

With a global tracker which you sell a little of each month for an income - are you sure you'd be better off doing that than a high income isa? I very much doubt it. Again, for reasons of charges. Forgetting all the charges which keep ifas in business and city kids in Porches, what's a typical extra charge to withdraw 1000 quid from a global tracker? (on top of all the other charges paid)?

[xongkudu] 18/1/2024 09:11

Thanks guys. All views much appreciated.

[zac0_4] 18/1/2024 09:07

XD - be careful. A share that's down nearly 3% in a week, 4% in a month, 8% in 6 months and 20% in the last year isn't what I'd consider to be 'sleep easy at night' investment

[wllmherk] 17/1/2024 22:25

My second largest holding is LGEN, I see it as a very boring but safe financial services company. The dividend is also safe and remember they held their dividend during the Pandemic when others suspended theirs, IE AV. I never lose sleep over this stock, it's held in my ISA and pays me a tax free income in my retirement.

Big Jim's 2 suggestions of PHNX and VOD are also held in my Portfolio, PHNX, similar to LGEN, not one I worry about, VOD are a different matter. They are one of my larger holdings and actually pay me more than LGEN or PHNX, but, I'm not as confident they can maintain their dividend, particularly with their debt levels.

Out of the 3 stocks I've mentioned, if I was investing tomorrow and wanted a sleep at night income stock I'd buy PHNX. Just my personal opinion, no advice intented.

wllm :)

[jubberjim] 17/1/2024 20:25

There are two that immediately spring to mind but they have been underwhelming of late

Phnx and Vod but that is just the fear pervading the market at present time

Both paying over 10 % if dividends are maintained

But judging from the movements fair amount of risk involved

Until those doubts are removed staying solvent and jobbing in and out as and when.

[zac0_4] 17/1/2024 19:09

Or, don't chase dividends at all. Simply buy a global tracker fund and sell units twice a year to the same value as the legal and general dividend payments.

You'll probably be better off!!