Kier Share Discussion Threads

[ant_eater] 08/4/2021 10:39

MORNING LITTLE ANTS......THIS DERAMPING CREW IS BRILLIANT!!

[dasty1] 08/4/2021 10:25

Interesting...construction highest in 6 years.

[hamhamham1] 08/4/2021 09:59

I love how hard some are tying to bad mouth the company, all that energy invested, yet still the share price gently climbs, chug, chug.
Most amusing :)

[wallywoo] 08/4/2021 09:15

Zico, Sparty is not interested in the truth. He wants to discredit cynics of Kier as a investment.

Sparty, as usual you are talking rubbish;





Debt destroyed Interserve and Carillon, today is no different to 3 and 4 years ago when they went bust. Zico just found another potential nail in the coffin.

[zicopele] 08/4/2021 09:12

Why dont you look at Kiers own website and get confirmation that Kier is involved in the Riyadh Metro?

Kier has been in the middle east for years.

[sparty1] 08/4/2021 09:05

Zero knowledge..
Are you Steve on lse boards..? From there, by JS in answer to the same question by
a poster..

"Steve, I generally always try to give you the benefit of doubt as well as often not agreeing with most of your observations. But this post takes the biscuit.
Keir International are a Saudi based telecoms, utilities, high tech company based in Saudi, Nothing whatsoever to do with Kier.
The material shortages & price increases are affecting every contractor from the biggest to the local house extension builders, we're all in the same situation. This industry is a fickle one, I've been at the sharp end for over 30 years & the suppliers, designers & trades I speak to presently all say they have never known it so busy. Not saying we are heading for a boom but certainly a decent pipeline ahead."

[zicopele] 08/4/2021 08:28

Metro in Riyadh ... lots of companies not getting paid. Is Kier involved? Looks very much like it is.

Saudi is not the golden goose any more. All contractors payments on hold.

Now that is not cricket.

[sparty1] 08/4/2021 08:22

All they have to do wally is keep paying the debt.Keep the lenders happy/ re negotiate terms in a very low interest environment.

Can we have another de ramper please? This one is broken! Not helping my quest to get back in cheaper. Quite to the contrary the bloody share price is stuck over 90p..

[wallywoo] 08/4/2021 06:29

Lol stdy, 2 points;


1) I said private equity like to pick assets up off administrators, not pay inflated prices to cash strapped holding companies. I didn't say that's the only way they pick up assets. It's a timing issue, PE know these are distressed assets and they are experts in waiting until the last moment.


2) My £190m that needs to be paid or refinanced in the next few months is fact, not inflated and made up;

HRMC; £80m due in March and June 21
£53.5m loan due in May 21
£50m loan due in November 21
E10m loan due in May 21 (see annual report page 202 for loan info)


You say that it's no problem and the lenders will just extend on good terms and investors will be happy to give cash for paper in a equity issue (all conjecture and hopelessly optimistic).


I say it is you who is unrealistic and on a different planet!! These are extremely rocky and uncertain times for Kier.

[brenman] 07/4/2021 23:40

2 more days left for skynews reporting vis a vis kier to be proven right or wrong.
hxxps://news.sky.com/story/kier-on-brink-of-housebuilding-arm-sale-to-financier-hands-12267281

[stdyeddy] 07/4/2021 21:02

One last thing tonight wallz-a-poppin; you were giving us your 'expert' view earlier on how private equity only buy from administrators (and I gave you an immediate example showing that you were wrong). Well it seems that everywhere I look today there's another PE firm doing exactly what Hands is doing, trying to buy low-priced assets from a listed business (or in this case below, the entire listed business):

A pair of private-equity firms have teamed up to make a bid for Royal KPN NV that could value the Dutch communications-services provider at more than $15 billion, according to people familiar with the matter. New York-based Stonepeak Infrastructure Partners and Sweden’s EQT AB are working on a bid that could be valued at more than €3 a share...

wallo-pops you really are coming across as a complete know-nothing nitwit and I suspect Guy Hands would not be impressed with your knowledge of his business.

[stdyeddy] 07/4/2021 20:38

Earth to Wally, Earth to Wally... come back from that parallel universe Wally!! Stretching numbers unrealistically is pointless here in the real world. No one apart from me and spartz is reading your rubbish anyway and we are not fooled. Kier's debts for renewal this year are comparatively small; making up huge debt numbers is silly.

As for Guy Hands -- don't worry, Davies has more than one plan. That's why he gets paid half-a-million a year. One thing I do agree with though; look at that chart -- you're not long for this board wallo-plops! Soon you will have to find some other toilet wall to scrawl on. I wonder if it will be tomorrow. Sleep well. 😊

[wallywoo] 07/4/2021 18:07

Oh dear, stdy and Sparty, really showing alternative agenda bias now. I have given you information showing that Kier need to pay back / refinance nearly £190m of debt in the coming few months. There's no evidence they can generate any of that.


When this debt was originally agreed Kier was a >£1b market cap company. Today lenders will not be so keen to renew terms for £900m of debt when their value is just £140m. Hence the importance of a equity issue, Guy Hands also knows this and will wait before picking up any assets.


Not long to wait now!

[sparty1] 07/4/2021 15:41

"Why did Kier have a disastrous RI in December 2018"

Because the shareprice was too high in terms of the company's performance.

Becasue the shorters were all over it. The shareprice has since been down to very attractive levels and has risen as buyers realise this.You had your chance but shorting at 50p!!!
Doh!

[stdyeddy] 07/4/2021 15:31

wally-pops the loans are of little import if they will be renewed at similarly low rates. You are scaremongering as usual. Don't forget that kier has also made big cost-savings that should bear fruit this year, plus underlying earnings plus potential sale of assets, including kier living. Kier has got through the worst recession in economic history and is now at the beginning for a new business cycle. Banging on about loans out of context is pointless, apart from making you feel a bit better about your terrible 'short' exposure.

As for kier's last RI; it was hardly 'disastrous' -- they got the money, even if the bookrunners had to pick up a lot of the shares -- there were many reasons for that and none of them apply today. Kier's interest rates are still low and suggest that lenders are NOT desperate for their money back -- banks have far bigger and more urgent debts elsewhere.

The key aspect to kier's fortunes are imv, its profitability -- we will shortly see how that is working out. As for your position, trying to 'short' the UK's largest regional construction business when the whole industry is insisting on better margins at the beginning of a building boom and with interest rates at an all-time low -- I think you are in a lot more trouble than Kier.

[imastu pidgitaswell] 07/4/2021 14:58

Just passing through:

[wallywoo] 07/4/2021 14:27

Lol stdy, since Kier's main debt facility of £670m was £504m drawn at the best cash position time (June 20), I think £53.5m will make a huge difference And there is a £50m ish payment due in November 21, and 10m euros due back in May 21. Personally doubt they can operate without a equity issue. Cash will be very tight in deed, especially since they also need to pay back the HRMC £80m and unknown cash spend for the last 9 months too!!


Why did Kier have a disastrous RI in December 2018, if not because the lenders want their money back?


The main facility is due in June 22.


As I say loads of pressure!

[stdyeddy] 07/4/2021 14:01

wallzo-popper, there's only a comparatively small loan (£53m) which matures this year (next month) so it's hardly big pressure for Kier. Either they'll renew it or pay it off. There's no evidence that lenders 'want out' as you claim. The evidence for that would likely come in the form of interest rates for new loans; I doubt Kier will see the 10-12% rates being demanded from genuinely distressed businesses, but rates agreed for any renewed loan will be an interesting indication of lenders' views on the strength of the business.

As for your imaginary short only 'taking a month to come good' -- you've been saying that for six months and been proven consistently wrong. If you want to know where the share price is going, I suggest you take a look at the chart in the top right hand corner of this page and draw your own trend line. Upwards.

[wallywoo] 07/4/2021 13:14

Getting me confused, Sparty. I don't like any CONstruction shares. Too high risk, too little reward. They will play a part to keep Britain working but as a investment sector is poor..


Oh and I'm very invested, on the short side. Past shorts put on at 118 and 144 among others, very happy with long term return here. Will only take a month to come good this time.

Lenders want out, and have done for years. Note the last rights issue! Debt needs to be renegotiated this year, that's very real pressure!!

[sparty1] 07/4/2021 13:06

"unable to raise cash"

They are paying their way.. Lenders not exerting pressure. You are making it up wally.

and that is from someone not invested currently. Profits in the bank. Your profits are a long way off..indeed your losses are accumulating.(if you have shorts running)
92p live.
Tighten up those cycle clips.. if it goes the right way you will need a fresh nappy and I`ll be unable to get back in.

meanwhile COST continue to disappoint despite all those "plus" points.

[wallywoo] 07/4/2021 12:55

Yes Sparty, risk and reward;


Risk; if Kier are unable to raise cash there's a very real chance the share price could drop to zero. And very quickly.


Reward; if Kier can raise cash, shareholders will be asked to pay for more paper. They won't get any dividends, and since the company spent £250m RI and more in 2.5 years, how long will it last this time? Stdy will tell you that the share price will rocket, just as it didn't last time. Do you believe him??? Since ham brought up HMSO, their RI discount was 94 percent!!!

[sparty1] 07/4/2021 11:42

They are not ignored although some are questioned. Just a question of risk and reward.

[stdyeddy] 07/4/2021 11:42

well wally-poo, your experience of private-equity is a little limited then. Here's a story just breaking about private-equity buying Toshiba and bouncing the share price to a four-year high:

[wallywoo] 07/4/2021 11:05

Lol stdy, we heard in December 2019 a kl deal would be soon, we heard in January 21 and again this week. Forgive me if I am sceptical, my experience of private equity is that they like to pick assets up off administrators, not pay high prices for assets to save a company / shareholders.


As far as advice is concerned, I offer none, just the facts on Kier as a investment and the reasons I am short. As ever, the positive posters all ignore them. That's fine as long as you don't moan when Kier come clean and reality sets in!!