Iofina Share Discussion Threads

[festario] 21/1/2014 16:27

Errr, didn't I say all that 3 posts earlier? I am feeling invisible.

[knackers] 21/1/2014 15:33

The price displayed on the ADVFN daily 'line chart' is the price of the last automatic trade ('AT') - not the mid price as many believe.

The vast majority of trades today have not resulted in an auto trigger and have been between/within the quoted bid and offer spread. It's typically in the order of a 3-4p spread, not great for market-making. Currently 101.25 vs 104.25.

[writz] 21/1/2014 15:28

Well, doh, I just figured it out after all this time looking at ADVFN charts. The priceline is driven exclusively by the ATs.

[writz] 21/1/2014 15:04

crosseyed, thanks. Yes, the line itself is something of an illusion. And yet for intra-day charting purposes its position is quite important. If trades were graphed as individual dots at the times they were reported, a rather different picture might emerge (literally) - though not necessarily easy to read!

[festario] 21/1/2014 14:48

ADVFN shows the price of the last AT trade as its mid-price.
If there have been no AT's, there is no movement.
It's very misleading at times.

[crosseyed] 21/1/2014 14:23

WRITZ,

What is the quoted price? Forget the mid-price that ADVFN reports. It is purely a guide and has no rule basis as far as the LSE is concerned.
Perhaps this will shed some light...


c

[writz] 21/1/2014 13:46

Today's transactions, and the official spread, have all sat above the quoted price so far today. Does anyone know what rules connect the price stated on ADVFN with the actual activity of the market? I asked one of the tech staff, but he didn't seem to know!

[knackers] 21/1/2014 11:14

Yup a wide b/o spread and MMs reluctant to give shares away cheaply - but the current lack of liquidity is not helping this market. That said L2 does look pretty evenly matched £1.0225 the current bid and £1.06 the offer, with SHOC (MM) sitting on the offer.

[festario] 21/1/2014 10:33

I just think that the market is trying to bore us out of our shares.

There isn't any sign of funds taking positions, nor of any obvious closing of short positions.

[ramsey11] 21/1/2014 10:20

He's been sectioned

[freshvoice] 21/1/2014 10:13

Where is everyone? Very low trades as well?
Is everyone at a party?
Even Nutters has been away for a day?

[superg1] 20/1/2014 16:07

If the economy is good with growth then gold will not be of great interest, if times get tough then the money piles into gold.

The initial views for 2014 are that there will be little interest in gold investment, thus the price may continue to fall.

The gold miners with the lowest opex seem the obvious ones to benefit on any turn and interest in gold. Logic suggests some of the high cost mines will close and those with forecast high opex, not producing won't be happening.

As the price soared it made more low grade resources viable to exploit, which is an interesting point, as on lower prices, a percentage of some miners resources may now not be viable.

There is imo a better way to invest in gold, not yet really available, I liked the idea of the guy that mentioned it, and I'll wait to see if it becomes an option in the future.

[crosseyed] 20/1/2014 11:20

Thanks for the replies.

Actually, I already use BullionVault though the info on bullionbypost may come in handy.

My post was really asking for opinions on the present market climate for gold in its various investment forms, ie miners, ETFs, and physical.

I know some question the reliability of BullionVault: is the physical gold really there in the vaults (choice of London/Zurich/New York/Singapore/Toronto in any of three currencies GBP, EUR, USD) and more importantly might it be confiscated if things got rough). I prefer Zurich. I could ask for delivery of the physical and I have no reason to believe it would not be forthcoming.

Gold ETFs, from my research, appear to be on much shakier grounds and subject to manipulation. Firstly, the value of ETFs is allegedly many multiples of the value of the underlying physical gold. The latter is supposedly held by the licensed bullion banks though studies would seem to suggest that reported and actual physical gold are very much out of line, the actual being very much less. There is cirumstantial though compelling evidence for that. Why will the US (Fed?) not return Germany's gold without a long delay? There are big discrepancies between gold known to be going to the likes of China and India and the claimed quantities held in world reserves after also accounting for new production. And so on. So basically, I would not touch ETFs though their pricing tends to dominate the market value of gold. In that important aspect, though, is gold over- or under-valued? Different pundits, some of whom have credibility, argue both ways. For instance, UBS is indicating a short-term target of $1050-1150/oz. A year ago, the indicative target was around $2000/oz. So maybe further price falls to come?

Many gold miners with higher operating costs are being hit by the drop in the price over the past year with some suspending operations or new developments or even going out of business. Now would not seem to be the time to be investing in gold miners though contrarian opportunities may be about. Any views on that, please.

I think that most of the above could also apply to silver. Perhaps also to platinum and palladium (the latter seems to be preferred at the moment in some quarters).

Thanks again, and in advance for futher thoughts.

c

[rogerbridge] 20/1/2014 09:29

I had a holding in PHAU physical gold that I sold about 12 months ago and I am looking to buy back in over the next few months after gold bottoms or heads up again. I have looked at bullionbypost and bullionvault for physical gold. I would not touch any ETF not backed by physical gold, or silver.
The problem with paper ETF's is that there is so much manipulation from the FED via the mega banks.
There is going to be a lot of money made in well run miners, when the gold price rises over the coming years, but it is a matter of timing, there have been a couple of false dawns.I have picked up a couple of mining funds at very low prices, most holdings in Canada and Australia due to political risk. These are tucked away for a rainy day and I will add, buy miners and bullion but not at the moment.

[veldt] 20/1/2014 09:21

crosseyed - you could have a look at bullionvault.com. You buy the gold and they keep it is storage for you. You can trade in and out if you want or just hold.
I have used them a bit for holding not trading and I think your gold is safe! But of course it is hard to know totally. You can buy fractions of a bar which is sensible.

[che7win] 20/1/2014 09:20

Thanks Spike,
I have some gold coins, I've only been a purchaser hence my question on selling.

A long term holding for me, I will probably pass them along to the next generation in due course, unless....

[spike_1] 20/1/2014 09:15

Yup, you can post it back (insured), or - as in my case - drive up from London to Birmingham (they are also close to the station). Best to keep your original invoice/delivery note and numbered bar certificates and keep them within their sealed transparent pack.

I don't have a clue as to whether now is a good time to buy?

Best wishes - Mike

[che7win] 20/1/2014 08:33

Spike,
Did you sell back to the above company?

[knackers] 20/1/2014 07:57

Indeed IOF Multi - 'gauges green'. A confident push through £1.15p supported by solid volume will lend further confidence to that new direction/upward trend channel.

[spike_1] 20/1/2014 07:57

crosseyed: if you do buy actual gold, I've found these people fast and reliable.

You will need to decide what size you want to buy: coins are 'cheap' but the 'overhead' is greater, whereas a 250 gram bar will sell for close to 100% value.

There is no VAT (silver there is). ETF's are very widely traded, but there is a widely held view that there are far more ETF's than gold to cover it (there shouldn't be). Do some reading.

I sold all my gold last Feb, still have lots of silver for that rainy day.

Best wishes - Mike

[superg1] 20/1/2014 07:33

Thanks Gad.

The point I heard re those was that they are a simplified method of iodine extraction with some processes present at other locations not needed.

There was a mention of under 1000bpd.

500bpd on 2000ppm would give 30 to 40 mt per year.

I did hear they have the odd well much higher than 2000ppm but would be low bpd as is often the case for very high ppm wells.