Independent Living REIT Share Discussion Threads

[bensta] 21/1/2002 20:34

Hi Weidernerworld,

I guess I don't really mind which index I traded but find the Dow is set up to do it far better than others with indicators like tick and trin and free real time streaming graphs.

If I was in Europe that would mean an hour or two of trading in the afternoon which would be the best time not to get in the way of any evening fun or morning lie-ins!!

Here's your post from the DTT, I am just copy and pasting it, thanks for letting me do that as it is a perfect example of living the dream and its an inspriration to me and others I hope!


"Bensta
we sold up over 3 years ago, travelled then traded a bit, travelled, traded.
Although not very successful (trading) and have seen capital depleted at a steady rate we are living our dream with the only real problem being that the 'freedom' is becoming addictive. Are currently in UK for a few months to work/trade a little then off to an old Dutch Barge in France where there is a facility to have a land line. Found that we have to stay put for a while to have longer internet access to catch up on the markets, it takes me a few weeks to get in the groove, but saying that have made successful single trades from small North African villages (internet cafes) and from US libraries.
We both have no regrets and enjoy dipping into and out of different lives, if we finally run out of cash we'll start again, not so terrible. I'm in my early fifties and you sound a bit younger so have a better chance to start again. Try not to say " I wish I had"."

[stevencarter] 21/1/2002 20:30

In reply to Lindy....leave a fax number and I'll send a print out of my last 3-4 months trades using CFD's.... only trade a few stocks, but you'll be able to see exit/entry points, amounts, profit or loss......hope this helps.

[weidnerworld] 21/1/2002 20:19

Hello again Bensta

I'd be happy to transfer my post if I knew how, so if you want to, do it for me or tell me how to do it!

One other general point from some of the posts, unless the time frame is awkward, ie Oz as mentioned, why do you have to trade in any other market than the ones you know, London/New York. Just because you're in Cairo/Casablanca/Cartagena or Castres and maybe a couple of hours ahead of London doesn't mean you have to trade the local market.
My logic is, whatever websites you access from the UK, you can from anywhere, hope I haven't laboured the point.

[bensta] 21/1/2002 20:17

By the way, does anyone know any good reading material on the subject. I was going to buy 'Trading for a living...' by Elder but it was published in '93 and that would seem a bit dated to me given the advancements in the internet since then.

Any other possibilities?

I am really appreciating all these replies,

Cashflow, you are spot on mate, I managed an average of £100 per day out of the 6 trading days I had during my Christmas hols and that was on stakes of mostly £2pp with the odd £4pp so it was a fair few pts everyday. As soon as I was back at work I gave it all back again as I just didn't adjust to the change.

If I did try this I would do it at £5pp and aim for 10-20pts per day but in the first hour and then stop.

[cashflo] 21/1/2002 18:55

I find working and trading incredibly frustrating I am 90% sure that the quality of entry and exit points is substantailly reduced when occupied with work. The main point I raise to myself when evaluating my performance investing is: if I was not at work would the trade have been 'cleaner'. Again not strictly related to the thread title but, the main thing I have learnt since March '99 is discipline. The idea of living is spain for a while sounds great, good luck all...

[lindy] 21/1/2002 18:53

I found Olbeoo's response very interesting. Very few posters give hard figures of what they have made (or lost) in a year.

Any body else prepared to give hard figures and how much capital they use?

[isoflourane] 21/1/2002 18:39

Maybe a 6 month trial run would be the answer. The best invention I found when living abroad was the internet. It becomes indispensible. Keeping an eye on UK bank account as I still had outgoings is so easy, now checking ozzie account is equally easy. Contact with friends + family is so simple, just video phone with web cam and msn net meeting, all price of local sydney call.

I'm sure most people would initially have a trial run, and tax rebates add a bit of cash to it all. Tax laws in OZ v. lenient, I applied for job whilst in UK, and got all flights, luggage, accomodation on arrival as tax deductable ( it is necessary to take up your job). Also got tax deductable computer and even ISP as this is necassary for the job, + many other bits.

As for getting bored/lonely, I am with family so not so much an issue, but I never saw it as a problem, and nor did the many othjer expats out there. Alot stayed and I get very jeleaous by the emails. I would return tomorrow if my situation allowed, but I might have to wait a couple of years. Any specific questions I'd be happy to try to answer, we are all looking for that dream life. I reckon everyone always will strive for somthing better, but searching for it is half the fun. Tony will always have you back to pay Tax and travel on British trains, just don't forget to have some pension planning for later on.

[finca] 21/1/2002 18:34

I have made a living (reasonable) from trading for the last three years.

From my previous career I had travelled quite extensively and had picked up a couple of languges (badly).

I now live in Spain where the cost of living is probably half of the UK. It helps being able to speak the language but is not essential.

Certain parts of the Spanish bureacracy are frustrating but generally as long as you buy/rent a property in or near a town, telephone access can easily be arranged, usually with ADSL. Without a job you will not be entitled to use the Spanish health system, but you may want to keep a low profile anyway as the Spanish rates of tax are higher than the UK and start at lower thresholds.

Internet access without ADSL is about £1 per hour during the day.

[bensta] 21/1/2002 18:24

I was writing my post before those last two posts were on the board so you have just answered a lot of what I wanted to know, very much appreciated, good stuff.

[bensta] 21/1/2002 18:17

Thanks for all those comments so far guys.

My sitaution is that I have been working in telecomms for 3 years since graduation and have decided that I would prefer another vocation to the current one. I don't like where I live but have made good equity on my house in the short time that I have had it so selling it is not a problem to me and there may be other reasons for doing so.

So I am still young (26) enough to go into another career area that I have decided I am more drawn to but have enough capital to take time out at least and ponder whether to do it professionally working for a company or as an amatuer working by myself if that makes sense.

During this time out I want to preserve my capital should I need it to start the humdrum again so would like to pay my way by trading and living cheaply. I think this is quite possible and totally agree with indalo that you've got to have a go if that's what you want to do.

It's not as drastic as jacking everything in to try and become a millionaire and there's more to it than the trading and money, there's life out there somewhere! My world has become too small for my liking and I am stagnating with no big goals in life if I stay as I am. We are talking boredom for the next 20 years!!

There are plenty of backup options if it goes wrong and possibilities for a smooth transition to life abroad as I have already mentioned.

Other guys on this BB have already said what great times they have had doing exactly this and I want to hear about how they made it possible but also why they came back and if they got bored/lonely/couldn't speak the lingo type problems etc etc

Let's have it!

Bb

[olbeoo] 21/1/2002 18:11

I have `day traded ` in a small way for the past 8 years, after taking (very) early reirement in my early fifties, personally I was only interested in spending enough time at it to profit enough to cover both my wifes and my CGT allowance, so we were not relying on the money to live on , but for luxuries,
Until the crash of 18 months or so ago I met my targets relatively easily, for a while who couldn`t?
I dealt long, short,traded index options, all by telephone with `no- advice` brokers, so for say six years I made( and this is not boasting, the downside is coming)around an average of £15,000 tax free at it, however I cheated by having Peps with an advice broker who I used for advice outside the Peps, well they charge enough anyway.
Last financial year I dropped a cool £10,000, and this one looks close to the same, the secret is not to feel you have to `punt` when the markets are moving all over the place and even more important not to let it become an obsession.
I had a bash at spread betting , with disastrous consequences, any way all you are doing is paying the bookies spread on top of the market- makers spread, and don`t be fooled into thinking that a stop loss will cover you , turn your back and its whacked, purely for gamblers I think, use a decent broker to trade futures, must be 20% cheaper.
All only my personal experience I hasten to add, I guess someone will say they make a fortune from day- trading, youth and a bag of cash may well help, also a market with at least a tendency to slowly gain is a great help,

good luck

[isoflourane] 21/1/2002 18:10

Great topic,

I guess alot of the issues are quality of life issues, and anywhere you are thinking of trading from must give you a better quality of life at a lower cost of living.

I have spent a few years working and trading in Australia, I did not spreadbet but short term traded (days to a couple of weeks) their stock exchange the ASX. I can't comment on other destinations, but hope these few points might be relevant to anyone thinking of emmigrating and trading.

1) British culture and language. Essentially Oz still embraces Brits. Despite the frequent digs, you don't feel an outsider for long and it is not much of a culture shock as I'm sure living in say Bali would be. I put this as no. 1 as it is so important, as living and holidaying are so different mentally. Having a good westernised society to support your trading must be important when the inevitable problems occur. Do'nt forget healthcare and city services.

2) Easy to trade in OZ, through own ozzie bank account, $15 or 6 pounds per trade. It all ran very smoothly, all through the internet. Plenty of Ozzie traders trade the DOW and NASDAQ through firms like E trade.

3) I moved to trade the local ozzie market as that is what surrounds you. When I returned to UK I found it v. hard to get back into the UK market, and now still prefer to watch the DOW. Big factor is time difference, easy to trade DOW in UK as 1pm to 8pm, not so easy if it is 1am to 8am. Also like yourself it is nice to have a good BB to read and contribute to, plenty of interesting traders in OZ, with v. high quality BB ( much more so than all but a few of ADVFN threads). If anyone is thinking of emmigrating and trading the local market, its a good idea to read their financial boards to get a taster.

4) Standard of living - I lived in Sydney and Brisbane, and earned about half what I do over here. I lived better, ate better, had better holidays and saved more. How? Honestly Britain is v. expensive, but you earn more. Taking over a nice wedge of sterling is a great start. 30000 will buy you a nice beachfront property in Queensland outright.

I am sure there are plenty of other reasons. Why did I come back?? well it won't be for good. Mainly job + chance to save up some decent sterling to take with me and family.

If you are considering it longterm, must look into pension and alternative employment if trading doesent cut it.

[cashflo] 21/1/2002 16:52

Excellent thread ben, I certainly know what you mean about working and the pressure thereof in the modern environment, I had a few thoughts along very very vaguely similar lines myself, about a year ago I made a consious decision which in reality was inherently a part - gamble. This was to either put more time and effort into my career (such as it is) by working longer and aiming for promotion, which would have meant moving, in the aims to make more money. The other option was to invest the time and effort into investments and trading. Yes I chose the second one. whilst working this extremely dificult, and I have a lot to thank for the 'limit order' and DLJ direct. Had some real sucess last year trading fwy.l and only time will tell - catch you later..

edit hope my ramblings aren't too much of a deviation to the thread title?

[dojistar] 21/1/2002 16:04

Bensta I cant believe you are thinking about selling your house to trade the DOW through a spread betting account abroad,if you want to chill out in a foreign country for a while,why not rent your house out and then try it out first.If you sold your house and your trading didnt succeed there a good chance you would be priced out of the property market with the spreadbetting companies
ending up with all your funds,Bensta we would all like to be Joesph Lewis chilling in the Barhamas with a few Billion but its just not that easy,just my opinion

[dontknowitall] 21/1/2002 14:30

Tips?

Use a flexible 24 hours :)

[bensta] 21/1/2002 13:54

Hi Mab,

Let's put it like this… the trading is a means to support a certain lifestyle that would be something completely different from what I do now. Its not a meant toget rich by in any hurry.

That said, I would certainly not be able to trade successfully enough to live in the part of the country that I do now and would not want to as I would get no 'life benefit' or extend my cultural experiences.

I do believe that it is possible to make enough to live on and enjoy a bit of life in some places abroad. andyj sounds like he had the perfect example on the DTT of day trading in Croatia on £150 of overheads per month.

I work now and I'm frustrated that I cannot trade the opening of the Dow as I have been successful doing that when I have had the opportunity. I am bored of my work and life in general so it is a lot about doing something different than making lots of money.

I have plenty of time before I decide if I will do this or not and that gives me more time to get more trading experience. I have family who live in Spain and Turkey who have fixed line internet access so I can come to arrangements there for starters to test the lifestyle in sunnier climes.

If I sell my house I would have plenty of funds so the pressure to make money would not be great for quite a while. All that doesn't worry me, I'm just more concerned and interested in tips and pitfalls of the whole thing.

Cheers for now

Ben

[mab] 21/1/2002 13:35

Bensta....the thought of trading successfully in different parts of the world is a nice idea. one question: can you trade successfully in the UK? if not i feel you will not be able to do so abroad, even more so with the added trials and tribulations of travel...setting up, finding your feet and getting in sinc with the markets etc.

Aus and the US would be my destinations......one day i hope to do the same, but require more dosh and experience yet!

good fortune if you decide to go and do it.

mike

[dontknowitall] 21/1/2002 13:33

I use cheap tools for the job...

One reasonable PC with plenty of RAM and unmetered ISP.
ADVFN website on all day (Silver)
Microsoft Excel - loads of spreadsheets (I love 'em!)

A second, older PC, with ShareScope.

The whole system works well for me (as opposed to my "trading" system, which is rather higgledy piggledy at times).

[bensta] 21/1/2002 13:28

Hi Truff,

Just to get things rolling, my personal plan would be to use a spreadbetting account and I would hope to be able to make some money from trading the Dow as I do now but I would like to limit this to maybe the opening hour or two each day ( to prevent overtrading as I always start to give back my gains throughout the day!).

I do not intend to deal in shares or hold any stock. So what I would need would be unmetered internet access from a desktop pc as I don't think a laptop is good enough to handle the trading software. I would only use the D4F software and no other TA packages. So regarding your idea of a 'traders paradise' the only other things I would require are a big comfy chair and supply of cold beer please, and a swimming pool! Seriously, just the hardware and the internet access are the real essentials and these need to be at quite a low cost.

[trufflehound] 21/1/2002 13:16

Hi Benesta,good to see the thread up and running.Couple of things I`d like
to know, whats the software of preference for day trading, and if I set up
a trading facility what else would you deem to be essential.
Regards Truff.

[bensta] 21/1/2002 13:08

LoL! Cheers Nigel

[nigel_] 21/1/2002 13:00

This may help matey!