Seneca Growth Capital Vct Share Discussion Threads

[ukhawk] 01/9/2004 11:41

Gjabrj, we talked about possible predators a while back and the names that came up were Persimmon and Bovis. But it could be one of many, as Edmond said it's "cannibalistic" in the sector.

[ukhawk] 01/9/2004 11:37

I deal online these days and normally comdirect are well within the quoted bid/offer, they were at 10.5/11.4 about half an hour ago for HYG. This is still a wider spread than the last couple of trading days. You can now pick up 150k, which implied RAB have kept the price down by selling.

[edmondj] 01/9/2004 11:30

Could take a day or more for any announcement then. The spread indicates why I have banged on about having a broker who will contest the MMs with a limit price instead of "dealing at best" which is a con and puts private investors at the mercy of the MMs, to be fleeced. I'm not trading but an effective broker should be able to negotiate within the spread.

I don't blame the MMs who are reacting to uncertainty; it is up to investors to find brokers who will give a proper service!

[barryrog] 01/9/2004 11:25

Hawk,
RAB are at liberty to sell stock providing HYG issue an RNS to that effect.
it is HYG that has to operate within the Takeover and Merger rules not RAB.
the MMs are killing trades in the stock by increasing the bid/offer spread to over 14%!

[edmondj] 01/9/2004 11:15

LOL, maybe the insider problem is why any RAB announcement got pulled?!

[edmondj] 01/9/2004 11:12

All a bit of a puzzle! (RAB dealing.) However one can easily lose sight of a main issue, that HYG management seems to be progressing well in its second half and Swaylands underpins prospects. No RNS yet from RAB, and ukhawk you make an interesting point about the 'insider' dilemma here. But although I've said the RAB factor is a key one since they need to boost second half investment performance and their stake is a platform for a bidder, I'm inclined to take an easy going view that (barring a housing crash) HYG's fundamentals should deliver value by whatever means.

[gjabrj] 01/9/2004 10:59

Any idea who's behind the takeover.

Artisan (Uk) perhaps?

[ukhawk] 01/9/2004 10:53

Well, the RAB sale has certainly kept the lid on for the time being.

A question. If RAB are being kept in touch with negotiations would they be able to buy/sell ? I would have thought not.

[barryrog] 01/9/2004 08:31

hello again GG,
yea and i see they have raised the bid to 11.25p to tempt weak holders into selling.
any sustained buying into this stock would send it soaring.

[dunnie] 01/9/2004 08:29

EJ,
i spotted this when ADVFN flagged up a announcement on the RAB board at 18:00 last night, however when i clicked on the announcement nothing came up so i phoned RAB's pr who told me of the announcement and promised to republish the announcement.
Regards

[greengiant] 01/9/2004 08:27

barry - good thought. Must admit that it never crossed my mind, but to keep the share price at a manageable level, they would need to release bits into the market.

gg

[dunnie] 01/9/2004 08:25

EJ,
we have seen RAB do this before when there is bid speculation, they will feed the rise so to speak, in fact when you have a large position in a stock its the only way to sell is drip feed it into the market, i think you will agree as i read it in one of your columns on Citywire.
Regards

[barryrog] 01/9/2004 08:24

look at the recent news at the top of this thread.

[edmondj] 01/9/2004 08:19

Where is this RNS? Not on UK wire HYG thread for example.

[barryrog] 01/9/2004 08:12

edmund,
its published under rule 8 as an RSN for HYG

[edmondj] 01/9/2004 07:57

There is no published reference to this sale, so one assumes "believed to be..."

[barryrog] 01/9/2004 07:33

dunnIE,
your reference to RAB's sale of 650,000 shares had me puzzled with particular reference to the timing.after all they clearly didn't urgently need £70,000.
however,there is a logical explanation.
HYG is a very illiquid stock.for 3 trading days on the trot buys have significantly exceeded sales and the MMs would have been very short of stock.
without a sale transaction of this size,inevitably the share price would have had to rise far more than it actually has and could have started to reach levels that may start to jeapordise the bid discussions.it would not surprise me if a similar thing happens again if buying continues.
anyone else have a view?

[barryrog] 31/8/2004 23:53

saturn,
its only my opinion that its a done deal but i believe the discussions have been going on for a while.
as i said in an earlier post,the move to conform to rule 2:10 (mergers and acquisitions) is usually applicable when negotiations are advanced not when they have just begun.
if you look at the cos.forecasts and at the real NAV,which i reckon is in excess of 20p (remember assets are carried at cost,not true worth), then you are looking at a company that was clearly undervalued and almost begging for a bid.
whatever personal ambitions the directors may have,their prime responsibility is delivering shareholder value and a big holder like RAB would be unhappy that their investment had not grown in value as expected or indeed should have.

[saturn5] 31/8/2004 22:32

barryrog

As you say in this case with the shareholders locked out it is likely to be a done deal.Lets hope that those in control are pushing for a good premium. Any idea when we will know anything?

[barryrog] 31/8/2004 19:01

i am well aware of RAB's holdings in HYG.
i believe it to be 29m shares and the same no. of warrants.
i personally don't think that selling 2% of this holding has any significance.
i also don't put much relevance on the current share price.
some long termers seem happy to get out at 11p + as this is 20% more than they would have got a short while ago.others are happy to buy in as any takeover,if it happens, is likely at a good premium to todays price.
i have said on earlier posts,i believe it is a done deal,others don't think it is.
we shall have to wait and see.

[saturn5] 31/8/2004 18:18

Strange that RAB has sold rather than wait for news

[dunnie] 31/8/2004 18:08

Barryrog,
the connection is RAB hold 23% of HYG stock, which is a material consideration.
RAB have just announced they sold 650,000 HYG shares at 11.25p, which does not look great for the premium expected but is in line with RAB's policy to feed any rise.
Regards