Goldplat Share Discussion Threads

[sea7] 07/1/2017 21:40

sibanye received ZAR37 Million from Rand refinery in 2015 as an interest payment on the loan given to Rand Refinery in December 2014 of ZAR385 Million.

see page 15..

reports.sibanyegold.co.za/2015/download/SGL-AFR15.pdf

In sibanye's interim statements they said the following, as at 30 june 2016

Rand Refinery recognised losses during the period as a result of potential gold lock-up in the smelter which could be recovered in future months and inefficiencies in processing by-product stockpiles. The carrying value of Rand Refinery remains an area of estimation and uncertainty.



Click on condensed consolidated interim statements and scroll to page 8, number 7.

[kimboy2] 07/1/2017 21:29

Crikey.

Well Anglo Ashanti loaned RR $44m in 2014 and in the next set of accounts wrote half of it off because they didn't think they would get it back.

That would indicate to me that RR have financial issues.

Is there another interpretation?

[discodave4] 07/1/2017 21:20

KB2You still haven't proven what you keep posting, that RR have financial issues.You have constantly argued against other posters views on pure subjective matters, namely opinions on the RR dispute, which at this juncture can not be proven nor disproven. Yet when your posts, which include alleged factual data/numbers, are challenged you fail to support your posts with any proof. All because you keep posting up numbers does not automatically make them factual.You post that you want people to challenge some of you financial forecasts in relation to GDP, yet based on recent posts you actually appear incapable of accepting any challenge at all.RR

[sea7] 07/1/2017 20:50

back in 2014 rand stated....

The Facility, if drawn down, is convertible to equity after a period of two
years.

Shouldn't be too long before they do.

[kimboy2] 07/1/2017 20:47

RR clearly do not have the cash to repay the loan. I would expect it to be converted to equity, though they could extend the period.

[danielmiller1] 07/1/2017 20:05

Of course Mr Market has been dubious of GDP,for quite sometime.

[danielmiller1] 07/1/2017 19:12

Reading the other thread intrigues me as years ago I was asking where has all the GDP money gone, of course Bot and thevStupis one came up with all the answers.....wrong of course.

Dan has always maintained there is a good case for pocket lining at GDP.

A VERY UNSTABLE COMANY INDEED!

[discodave4] 07/1/2017 18:35

"They show they had $5m in cash at the end of 2015"Over a year ago.DD

[discodave4] 07/1/2017 18:23

"They don't have $100m", How much cash do RR have?

[discodave4] 07/1/2017 18:22

KB2The loan was not just with Ashanti.DD

[sea7] 07/1/2017 18:18

DD,

thats right, I would not be so naive to think that the odd bit of gold hasn't walked out of the door at GDP.

[kimboy2] 07/1/2017 18:02

DD
The figures in the Ashanti results presumably count as fact. They show they had $5m in cash at the end of 2015, the last accounting date.

The fact that Ashanti have had to write their loan down to RR would suggest all is not necessarily well.

[kimboy2] 07/1/2017 17:59

S7
Both half right;

During the year, the Group undertook a toll processing contract with Rand Refinery which yielded 3,700 kg of silver (1,593 of gold equivalent ounces) and 1,350 ounces of gold.

[discodave4] 07/1/2017 17:59

KB2"They don't have $100m", How much cash do RR have?.....you don't know, but infer they have financial issues, just guessing all the time. Don't mind guessing or having opinions on subjective issues but to declare figures as being factual when there not is getting a bit tedious tbh.DD

[shareholder7] 07/1/2017 17:35

Silver Kimboy

[kimboy2] 07/1/2017 17:32

The point about the loan was that it was due a week ago. RR don't have $100m in cash, or anything like, which is why Ashanti wrote the loan down.

The gold probably does belong to a third party but the processing fees are due from RR, and they are holding on to them.

Whatever the merits, or otherwise, of the case business goes on - even with RR.

[discodave4] 07/1/2017 17:10

"Where there is gold there will be theft"....Same applies to GDP then!. All interesting stuff S7 and KB2, but the loan with Ashanti was over two years ago, i believe that it also included other shareholders like Sibanye and Harmony, so pulling the accounts for Ashanti doesn't prove much - how much cash do RR have on their books?.Anyway, thought one of the other theories posted on here was that the issue was down to a third party not actually RR.Have a good one.DD

[sea7] 07/1/2017 14:56

In 2012 someone from rand was arrested with 1kg of gold on him.

In February of 2016 someone was in the labour court over hiding 17kg of gold in the workshop.

Where there is gold there will be theft, despite what Rand say.

[sea7] 07/1/2017 14:48

Hi DD,

yeh don't doubt that!!!

[sea7] 07/1/2017 14:47

Back in 1998 rand refinery ascribed 0.02% of gold lost to theft. That would equate to 0.76 of a tonne a year at todays stated 380 tonnes a year. Despite the fact that they claim that they had a near 100% recovery rate after new security measures were put in place, it would lend some credence to the "lost gold being stolen" bit by bit over the years and only noticed when the new accounting system was put in place.



Page 19 has the part about rand refinery.

They reckoned, mine thefts and refinery thefts industry wide, that 31.5 tonnes were nicked over the year. Not much will have changed.

[discodave4] 07/1/2017 14:39

And I'm sure GDP's, and thousands of other disgruntled employees elsewhere, say exactly the same thing. Indeed, it sounds like the moans at where I work!.:)DD

[sea7] 07/1/2017 13:29

Head treasurer at Rand looks like he could be hard work!!!

[sea7] 07/1/2017 13:27

Comments about working at rand from former employees..



Excerpts...

It is a hectic day. Quality is not important,the people are not productive

Management was unfortunately a little issue as there were to many of them to report to which created a massive confusion and diversity in the department itself.

There is nothing hard about the Job but there are some challenges like failing projects,working with other people from other departments within the company.

having a project with people from another department which doesnt share the same goal or vision

from january 2016...

Very competitive, very little support from management. Worked as part of the treasury team-very stressful. A typical day was from 7 am to 10 pm. There was no room for growth.

[sea7] 07/1/2017 13:17

the loan announcement from Rand.



The maximum commitments of each of the initial lenders will be as follows:
• AngloGold Ashanti: R573,8m
• Sibanye: R 448,5m
• Harmony: R140,4m
• Gold Fields: R37,3m

[sea7] 07/1/2017 13:14

The loss of the gold at rand meant that anglo, sibanye and harmony made loss provisions of $92m between them.