Diversified Energy Share Discussion Threads

[jaknife] 12/1/2024 13:16

CASSINI,

Thank you, I've never seen a listed dual resident plc before, it's very unusual and seems horribly inefficient.

Yes UK pension funds are automatically entitled to 0% WHT under the UK/US tax treaty.

JakNife

[cassini] 12/1/2024 12:57

#7226

Not so,

DEC is registered in the UK but all its staff and operations are in the USA.

Therefore, for tax purposes it is domiciled in the USA - all tax it pays is to the US government.

Therefore, we in the UK pay US WHT on DEC dividends.

Ar least, we do unless DEC is held in a tax-efficient wrapper of some sort. The UK has a bilateral taxation agreement with the USA which means theoretically in an ISA we pay only 15% WHT and in a SIPP 0% WHT.

That is how it should work, but as I mentioned yesterday, UK brokers that are owned/derived from banks like Halifax/Iweb or Barclays seem to have some kind of operational difficulty reclaiming WHT so they deduct from their unfortunate clients the full 30% WHT.

When my W8-BEN expired last year (they last up to 3 years, depending somewhat on the date actually activated, but I was unaware of this), ii took WHT from my DEC dividends in my ISA at 15% for the first time. I also had DEC in a SIPP, but this was paid in full with 0% WHT deducted as usual.

It would seem the W8-BEN is needed to avoid losing the full 30% WHT in an ISA, but a SIPP, being in a pension wrapper, gets automatic 0% WHT dispensation even without a W8-BEN - at least, for ii.

[jaknife] 12/1/2024 12:49

I have no position as of yet but I've seen enough to want to investigate in detail.

[jaknife] 12/1/2024 12:40

candid investor,

"Incidentally , it does make it a mystery as to why I had it deducted from my Kenmare Resources Dividend as I can't see what the difference is . Incidentally I was also charged the stamp duty on these purchases with Kenmare too"

Kenmare Resources is an Irish company and hence subject to Irish tax rules. There is an Irish WHT (which may be reduced by treaty in certain circumstances) and Irish stamp duty.

Diversified Energy is a UK company. The UK does not impose WHT on dividends.

It is always helpful, when there are questions on tax, to read the original prospectus, which is normally on the website, eg:



JakNife

[bluemango] 12/1/2024 12:29

#7224 No (assuming you're still referring to DEC, not Kenmare) - It will be zero tax. See below:

justiceforthemany 29 Nov '23 - 23:22 - 6401 of 7224

AJ Bell pay the full dividend amount, no tax taken off.
Via their SIPP.

[scubadiverr] 12/1/2024 12:05

You will be getting WT deducted

[bountyhunter] 12/1/2024 11:30

Interesting, another link for the header, thanks for posting bluemango.

[bluemango] 12/1/2024 10:46

From Peel Hunt yesterday. Apologies if already posted:

"One of the highest yielding is FTSE 250-listed Diversified Energy Co
DEC, which is focused on the acquisition, production and retirement of natural gas assets in the United States.

It reported record production and lower unit costs during 2023 but a weaker US gas price has impacted its shares, which fell 44% last year. The stock now trades on 2023 dividend and FCF yields of 25% and 52% respectively.

The bank said: “Like many in the market, 2023 was a tough year for Diversified’s shares. However, the fundamental cash flow generation ability of the asset base is undimmed, offering investors an incredibly attractive entry point into this high-quality company.”

[kaos3] 12/1/2024 10:11

todays trading chart ... decision time - orange line vs up channel



edit 15 min later - orange line did what it had to do ... for now

edit 15 min later ... breakout ... i bought

[candid investor] 12/1/2024 09:55

Ok ..thanks all ...that is a huge relief to know that I won't be getting and WHT deducted ..

Incidentally , it does make it a mystery as to why I had it deducted from my Kenmare Resources Dividend as I can't see what the difference is . Incidentally I was also charged the stamp duty on these purchases with Kenmare too

[bountyhunter] 12/1/2024 09:46

There's no SD any more due to the NYSE listing.

[scubadiverr] 12/1/2024 09:45

No. Stamp duty is a UK levy, withholding tax is US

[candid investor] 12/1/2024 09:39

Incidentally , I didn't pay any stamp duty on my purchase of DEC ..Is this a factor in determining whether a withholding tax does or doesn't apply ?

[marksp2011] 12/1/2024 09:37

AJB SIPP uses a "collective" W8-BEN as it s an authorised pension scheme.
As there is a dual tax treaty US/UK, the witholding tax on divis coming from a US org is zero.

The currency isn't the issue it is the tax base of the paying org and whether there is a tax treaty with that country.

[candid investor] 12/1/2024 09:30

Hi Cassini

Many thanks for your fast response .
I am with AJ Bell , my reason for asking is because I received some dividends from Kenmare Resources , which is a company registered in Republic of Ireland .. their dividends are paid in US$ too, and I got 25% withholding tax withheld from my dividend

Is it different for Diversified Energy ?

Incidentally .. I have also received dividends from Petershill Partners and Taylor Maritime, and they were both paid in US$ but I didn't have ANY withholding tax deduction , so I don't know whether my DEC dividends will or will not be subject to withholding tax

Will be extremely grateful if somebody could tell me for sure ...30% is a massive hole out of the headline 25% dividend yield. It changes the whole risk v reward equation

Thank you ..

[bountyhunter] 12/1/2024 08:23

A sensible approach generally speaking.
I'm busy the rest of the morning and only had a small amount from a divi to add, so for that it's not going to make too much difference.

[kaos3] 12/1/2024 08:17

I take it easy. waiting. for some time /days/. before final buying

[bountyhunter] 12/1/2024 08:14

Maybe, I thought it gapped up because I was about to add a few! Still cheap as chips.

[kaos3] 12/1/2024 08:09

sp gaped up this morning. will come down for the double bottom imho. and probably testing round number of 1000

[neilyb675] 12/1/2024 08:04

1100.00 - 1111.00 (GBX) at 08:03:14
on Market (LSE)

[cassini] 12/1/2024 02:03

candid investor,

If you tell the board what broker provides youir SIPP then we can probably tell you if you will get hit by Withholding tax or not.

It shouldn't vary amongst brokers, but it does.

However as a rule of thumb, if you use brokers that are derived from/owned by banks (e.g. iweb/Halifax or Barclays etc) then you will pay the full 30% tax I believe.

If you are with ii, H.L., A.J.Bell etc you will pay no (zero) withholding tax in a SIPP on DEC.

To be sure though, consider telling us who your broker is so someone who uses them can confirm the tax situation.

[candid investor] 12/1/2024 01:48

Could anyone please help . I am a UK investor considering investing in DEC shares as part of my Sipp
Will I be hit with withholding tax on Dec dividend within my Sipp
If so ..how much

If there is tax , then dividend isn't 25% and it diminishes the motive for taking the high risks involved with this share

Advice appreciated ..I know some of you have raised the matter , but will I still be liable to it within a Sipp ?

Thank you

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 11/1/2024 21:46

#Aleman, I also have a W-8BEN in place and active, and a WHT query ticket in with IB, I got hit with the 15% as expected but then another 29% WHT on top, and currently waiting an explanation after the dual listing, so this time around I lost 44% of the dividend..

[aleman] 11/1/2024 20:27

I did not get paperwork from Computershare UK on the US listing vote but I have just received a Letter of Transmissal form from Computershare USA to opt for Crest Holding, Broker Holding or Certificate. Along with that, I have received a W8-BEN certification form, with a letter saying Computershare USA have no record of previous certification needed to avoid 24% backup withholding tax on my account. I already had a W-8BEN submitted and was receiving 85% dividends. There is something about maybe having to fill out a W-8BEN to avoid backup withholding tax in the listing details on DEC's website. I don't understand how the two withholding taxes interact and had assumed my previous submission had covered it. It seems not.

Has anyone else had similar? Does anyone have a comment on the two taxes and the request for a second W-8BEN?