Craven House Capital Share Discussion Threads

[karina] 20/1/2015 11:42

PFIT still has a value despite the delisting. They came to AIM far too soon on accounts that looked like one man in a shed with a laithe, not a listed business.

With the orders they have in place they will look a whole lot different when the next accounts are released.

Hard to say what value CRV will now attribute to PFIT but at least it will be agreed by Spark rather than DS and its bound to increase once they have a 7 figure turnover......

As well as putting off short term holders and their lack of self promotion, it's also worth noting that with the successful investments they have made, CRV DO NOT enhance the valuations when calculating NAV, look at Royalty Sports for example

"RSB is at an early stage of growth however sales are increasing rapidly. Since the time of our acquisition, the operations of the business have been restructured; the company's focus has been shifted to the higher margin, less-capital intensive "Craft" clothing brand and away from high-end bicycles. The company has also been negotiating the distribution agreements for further higher margin brands focused on the cycling and outdoor sporting industry.

As well as increasing margins, this shift has significantly strengthened the balance sheet of the company, which will now be debt free by the end of 2014. Under new management, forecast EBITDA earnings for 2015
have risen to c.$900k (an increase from $700k at the time of our original investment). RSB has also recently extended its distribution agreement with Craft and signed two new agreements with other cycle-related brands; further expansion is planned over the course of 2015.

Our initial valuation at the time of investment, was based on a 6x forward EBITDA multiple. Given the progress the company has made in recent months and enhanced earning projections, the business is creating value

However, our policy remains to hold investments on our books at our initial entry price unless there is a reason to mark the investment down"

So they could enhance RSBs value by $1.2m dollars this year, but they won't. They could have increased the Hotel valuation but will not until realisation, yet they have down graded some investments.

Its no ordinary AIM business in my view and I am very happy to continue to hold.

[monkey puzzle] 20/1/2015 11:19

I think PFIT value was already written off imo....the drop seems more like MMs just taking it back where it was before last weeks buyers who are now sellers that have no patience. still looking at something re DAN now....if nothing comes from that I join them as it's hard to just sit on these indefinitely without some newsflow to bring back any interest. I know news can come at any time but that's the problem, any time is as long as it takes....watching to see what DAN have to say before 31 Jan now.

[j0llyr0ger] 20/1/2015 11:13

Pressfit were cancelled from aim last week. Maybe cause of drop?

[monkey puzzle] 20/1/2015 09:50

So for CRV management it's all about the NAV and they have already said the market doesn't reflect that and is unlikely to for the reasons they have already outlined, ie using their shares to buy distressed assets means those owners sell their CRV shares in order to realise cash when they can....hmmm, would be interesting if anyone could show the value of shares sold month by month to try and guage if that is the case?

As for the current NAV, well it looks like CRV is about right for the sector it's listed in fwiw but that's way below the rest of the market:

Key Ratios

Company Sector Market

Net Tangible Asset Val PS
Company 0.69p
Sector 0.66p
Market 1.83p

[monkey puzzle] 20/1/2015 09:42

Just to confirm what the company view is re valuation:

We remain committed to building long term value for shareholders. We are contrarian by nature, seeking undervalued opportunities where the seller is distressed but the underlying assets are attractive. This can be a time consuming process and we look at ten opportunities for every one that merits investment. Craven House continues to value its share capital as a precious asset only to be utilised when the returns justify the dilution.

Our strategy requires patience and the willingness to do nothing until such time as an opportunity arises with the appropriate margin of safety and potential for acceptable returns. However, time is on our side and over the next couple of years, we expect to deliver a number of meaningful exits from the portfolio. The value of the shares and the value of the assets owned by the Company may continue to diverge until such time as we reach the size and scale to attract the attention of institutions and other long term oriented shareholders. In the meantime we will continue to build value for all shareholders as measured by the net asset value per share. In time the share price will reflect that value. Until such time we believe Craven House shares will continue to sell at a steep discount to intrinsic value providing a spectacular opportunity for patient investors.

[monkey puzzle] 20/1/2015 09:20

Less than £2k of sells and we are heading down faster than debbie does dallas.....for fox sake what kind of MMs are working on this share? Are they really so limited in their abilities that they only look ate trade data to decide how to value a share?

In fact now it comes to it, what does determine the value of an AIM share these days as it's almost impossible, no actually it is impossible to follow most valuations and understand how they are priced the way that they are. I wonder if any of you have a view that can provide some useful data points in trying make any sense of share prices these days other than buys v sells or has it really come to that now so no real data is used to value companies any more?

Do they actually PER and or NAV data at all or is it just about PI sentiment and what MMs want to do day to day as a result? If so what's the point in trying to work out whether a share is good value, over priced or anywhere in between?

[monkey puzzle] 16/1/2015 09:48

Day trading amateur.....with people like this MMs will never stop their games.

2015-01-16 09:25:50 0.40 91,490 0.40 0.43 Sell 366

2015-01-15 12:18:05 0.47 91,490 0.40 0.50 Buy 430

[pembury] 16/1/2015 07:43

5m buys also

[doc robinson] 16/1/2015 07:37

Late trade of 1.25m at .41 was that a buy from earlier in the day ??

[karina] 15/1/2015 15:14

Could be MP, but then the rise wasn't warranted on the volume bought, they quickly moved to kill buying, as per usual....

Maybe we have just edged back to where we should be, lets see? At least its currently fair at 41/425.

[monkey puzzle] 15/1/2015 15:08

Not seen any trades since around 12........must be a seller out there yet to be declared?

[karina] 15/1/2015 15:00

42 to buy currently!

[karina] 15/1/2015 13:36

Quoted spread 40/50 actual 41/45. How do they get away with it.....?

[monkey puzzle] 15/1/2015 12:28

At least we know the management cannot issue a "we know of no reason" speeding ticket here......come on buyers get in there.

[h d shoring] 15/1/2015 12:22

They have had a lot going on for a long time seismick.
I am more interested in something that has gone on .???
Added a few more at .43 to show willing though .

[martin collins] 15/1/2015 12:21

that's what confused me about your post 848 MP, it was as if you were annoyed that the spread was too wide as though you wanted to involve short term traders. From your subsequent posts you obviously don't, sorry if I misinterpreted.

[monkey puzzle] 15/1/2015 12:20

Well Pressfit was a bloody disaster for them, that we do know. The rest remain under wraps for now and judging by newsflow last year I doubt we will see alot on those other investments whereas DAN could be a instant hit.....

[seismick] 15/1/2015 12:16

They have a lot gong on besides DAN so I would expect progress on a number of fronts shortly.

[monkey puzzle] 15/1/2015 12:11

Only a maximimum of 2 weeks left then if DAN stick to that timetable.....surely people could at least T-20 these in that case.....come on guys man up and buy and hold for news.....

[pembury] 15/1/2015 12:09

DS have to put out their report in January

[martin collins] 15/1/2015 12:05

Sorry if this is a bit of a daft query but surely we don't want people to trade on little up ticks, I hold here and would rather see long term investment and people holding for gains. Am open to all enlightenment chaps.

[monkey puzzle] 15/1/2015 12:01

CRV Bid: 0.4p Offer: 0.5p .....that's the quoted spread...clearly designed to stop people trading it...bloody MMs

[monkey puzzle] 15/1/2015 11:59

oh gawd...now 0.45 the bid for 100l.....bloody share

ActionSELL Quantity100,000 Shares SymbolCRVFirm Price£0.0045Quote Time15/01/15 11:59:03Net Consideration