Cloudified Share Discussion Threads

[cool hand kev] 29/3/2019 12:33

theorb: Can you ask them to send you a share certificate?

[isran noor] 29/3/2019 12:13

Where are those two muppets who were saying chl will win comfortably.Stephen was banging on about other options if chl lost.What are they Stephen?

[neo26] 29/3/2019 12:07

Roi smell blood and they are out for the kill, there aim now is clearly to make chl bankrupt.A crook will always be looking over his shoulder but if the other party stops looking then no need to worry.I really hope chl have something.....

[andy] 29/3/2019 11:54

Jack,


And if CHL can't pay the costs (and they can't) I guess they could take that land in lieu?


I doubt it's worth $9 million anyway, it isn't much good unless someone develops the mine and decides to route the coal via the CHL planned port in the future.

[jack1236] 29/3/2019 11:00

This sums the situation up nicely, although I disagree with some elements of it -



You might have to sign up to read the whole research, but it's free.

[jack1236] 29/3/2019 10:43

It was to do with Stay of Costs; used as collateral, so the 'Stay of Costs' would stay in place. So I suppose when Costs are paid it is released. That's my understanding. I could be wrong.

[neo26] 29/3/2019 10:36

Doesnt the land automatically goto roi, considering it was guaranteed should they lose.

[jnbrw] 29/3/2019 10:31

Remember we have the asset of the port land which chl own, have full title to and which is not disputed. (and not part of the arbitration case).

That is worth a few million.

It is possible that that in itself may go most of way to paying costs leaving us free to put what ever else we raise towards further action

[neo26] 29/3/2019 10:15

JackThe award states that no evidence of corruption, this is because nothing much on record talked about corruption.The procedural orders didnt allow it.

[neo26] 29/3/2019 10:11

AndyWhy would the state be bothered about 9m when they have just taken asset worth billions?They trying to bury chl so they cant come back later with another case...Chl are not in a good position at the moment.JackYou are correct, i hav not seen one article mentioning insider.

[jack1236] 29/3/2019 10:06

Andy

Churchill has some time; it's not something that will happen tomorrow. All Churchill have to do is take a leaf out of the ROI book; stall, state we are considering Revision with new facts provided by Probowo in February 2019 during the live debate with the President.

[andy] 29/3/2019 09:58

Jack good find.


"The signatures on the documents [provided by Churchill], about 34 documents, from exploration to exploitation documents, might have been made with the use of autopen technology, based on observations by our experts," Justice Minister Yasonna Laoly told reporters in Jakarta."


"Might"?




"The decision was final, thus ending a six-year dispute. The tribunal will soon process the legal costs of $9.4 million awarded to the Indonesian government."


However, he said the fight was not yet over, as the government must actively ensure the enforcement of the penalty against Churchill and Planet.


We must check their assets in Britain and Australia and then we will enforce the court's decision. We have to talk to their lawyers and we will find a way to enforce it; we have to cooperate with other countries too, no matter how long will it takes, we are pursuing it," said Cahyo Rahadian Muzhar, director general of legal administration in the Ministry of Justice and Human Rights".



This is my main concern, they go for the jugular (their costs) to bury CHL and prevent any further appeal or legal action.

[jack1236] 29/3/2019 09:52

Neo Agree there is a quite a bit wrong with the Annulment.

Note that none of the articles mention the 'insider'.

[carlo sartori] 28/3/2019 21:42

Thanks Neo. All I can say is that ICSID is a disgrace and surely their incompetence should be highlighted in the press - or are we too insignificant and wiping us out is such a small hill of beans that no-one cares???
I say fair dues to DQ and I hope he finds some way to continue the fight - I'd almost prefer the ICSID personnel get jail than get my (small fortune) back out of Churchill. The disdain with which they have treated Churchill is the most annoying thing of all.

Carlo.

[neo26] 28/3/2019 21:21

243. The Applicants say that the Infection Issue was dismissed on the basis of international law without explanations as to why international law trumped Indonesian law. There is no need for a Tribunal to provide reasons on issues which have become irrelevant to the outcome of the case. The Tribunal agreed with the State that “claims arising from rights based on fraud or forgery which a claimant deliberately or unreasonably ignores are inadmissible as a matter of public international public policy.”

357 In these circumstances, there was no
necessity to address the validity of the Exploitation Licenses as a matter of Indonesian law, because the forgery was too serious:

=========================

who makes these guys god, if the police and kpk cant find forgery why does icsid call "forgery was too serious",

These are poor arguments

[neo26] 28/3/2019 21:06

jack

review might be our last chance, police case would be closed now and no longer confidential, this may exonerate ridlatama and tribunal findings fail.

maybe point finger at noor, how he manage to get private jet with modest wage?

Maybe ask why Putra and Noor were meeting after the 2016 award?

Unclean and UNclear licenses in east kalimantan?

[neo26] 28/3/2019 20:57

249. Implicit in the Tribunal’s use of the singular to describe the “insider,̶1; and to its description of his role as “possibly [providing] assistance,” is that the Tribunal did not consider it likely that multiple State officials were involved, nor that the single individual likely involved was the principal driver of the illegal scheme. To the contrary, the Tribunal expressly described the scheme as having been “orchestrated” by “author(s) outside of the Regency, most likely Ridlatama.” The Tribunal’s language thus telegraphed fairly clearly its view of the comparative responsibility of Ridlatama and the individual Regency insider. This context informs the Committee’s impression that the Tribunal evidently did not consider the role of the insider to be sufficient to overcome the stark admissibility implications of a sweeping illegal scheme, orchestrated by Ridlatama and tainting the entire EKCP investment on which the Claimants predicated their claims. While the Tribunal did not go through the exercise of an express State responsibility analysis, its views on the matter (to borrow a phrase from the Wena committee) were “implicit in the considerations and conclusions contained in the award,” which “can reasonably be inferred from the terms in the decision.

===============================

what utter drivel, without Putra the licenses would never have been registered with the registrar in regency, as he/she conveniently remembered after such long time that Putra gave photocopies of licenses to register in regency book and would provide genuines later.

Putra committed fraud, yet the state told the tribunal they do not know where he is but he was still employed by the state in remote village, they transferred him there till things settle down, now hes dead.

Why did Putra keep his govt job after billion dollar fraud?

The point mentioned by tribunal in 249 is absurd, if i was a police officer and someone killed someone, the evidence was stored in police station, the person would never be able to get evidence. Now if the police office (insider) gets the weapon and gets rid of it , who done the greater crime.. Think about it, this is absolutely bullsh#t.

Without insider nothing could have happened if you follow roi's narrative, but all this was a fabricated story...

[nico115] 28/3/2019 19:04

It will stand He's basically saying nothing we can do now : (

[jack1236] 28/3/2019 18:54

(Not sure we can annul an annulment)

[andy] 28/3/2019 18:19

Neo,


Many thanks indeed.


DQ sounds as though he wants another go, so still some hope as long as he can finance it.


That may be part of the current considerations of course.

[lithological heterogeneities] 28/3/2019 17:30

neo,

many thx for posting.
good info.
much appreciated.

[jack1236] 28/3/2019 16:31

As I've posted before States can use fraud as a defence; once they do, the claim goes out of the window; the Tribunal will be 'fixated' on the fraud and nothing else. There are articles on this. The 'insider' could have done the fraud by himself.

Thanks Neo.

[wulber] 28/3/2019 16:25

Thanks for sharing and we are all peed off, not so much the decision alone, but how it was orchestrated.Yes, l would be delighted to hear we are fighting on.In fact reading between the lines, CC would not be analysing the decision in detail unless they knew there were other options.Why waste time and energy doing do, if you get my drift?

[neo26] 28/3/2019 16:20

They analysing the award and will let us know there thoughts.Money is issue and what other tribunals can we goto, if any.I thought i would post and let people know what dq thinks about this decision.