Cloudified Share Discussion Threads

[wulber] 28/3/2019 16:04

And thanks for sharing too Neo.

[rutter] 28/3/2019 16:00

Thanks Neo. I wouldn't bet against DQ carrying on the fight. Maybe all isn't lost after all.

[wulber] 28/3/2019 15:54

Yes, keep fighting!Neo, did you reply and say why not Paris?What options to keep the litigation going?

[jnbrw] 28/3/2019 15:51

As ever a dignified and considered response from DQ. Many thanks Neo for posting.



As the smoke clears and the scrutiny begins it is clear that the panel FAILED to address the majority of the 17 material points of procedural mistakes and failings - which they were set up and paid to address - in any meaningful way.



It is an Alice in Wonderland judgement where black is white, night is day and what the Queen of Hearts says is law regardless of logic or truth.


It would be frankly incredible if this judgement is allowed to stand.

[neo26] 28/3/2019 15:33

i think if it cost c.$500k-$1m to have any options on the table chl should go for it, even if they have to give further % of the award to pala or any other large investor.

Just do it DQ, these guys shouldn't be allowed to get away with this, scandalous.

No one has been charged with any wrong doing with ekcp, roi refused to produce material documents which would have made a difference to the outcome.

Really tired, really annoyed at what just happened to us by icsid.

[valtos] 28/3/2019 15:18

Tks Neo26. Keep going DQ!

[neo26] 28/3/2019 15:16

it really hurts when you are shafted from an organisation who claims to be impartial, they made there mind that they will reject the claim and then made excuses later to fit the narrative.

[neo26] 28/3/2019 15:13

response by DQ, really annoyed at the icsid.

Dear Neo,

Thank you for your email and I share your sentiments entirely about the decisions that have emerged from the ICSID process. For an institution that promotes itself as an objective and impartial forum for international dispute resolution, the very best I could say about the process adopted by the Kaufman Kohler Tribunal was that the process was engineered to facilitate an outcome and it was dishonest. It seems that all a country like Indonesia has to do is cry forgery / fraud and then refuse to provide relevant documents it has been ordered to enable ICSID to turn a blind eye to the active participation in the alleged fraud by senior Indonesian government officials that Indonesia positively admitted to.

While we understood that the Annulment process can only be successful in the event of serious procedural failures by the initial Tribunal, there were clearly a number of substantive procedural failures by the Kaufmann Kohler tribunal that the annulment committee could have engaged but chose not to on the basis of very soft reasoning. In my mind this aspect is even more concerning for any international investor seeking the protection of their legitimate investments in an objective and fair dispute resolution forum.

Speaking personally I can’t see myself ever recommending ICSID as an honest or fair dispute resolution forum and Indonesia is not a country that I will ever support again in terms of future foreign investment. This obviously does not help our cause however I hope the above gives you a sense of my frustration at a contrived process that was just perverse.

We are currently reviewing the latest decision in detail and will circulate our thoughts when complete.

Regards

David

[neo26] 28/3/2019 14:49

The biggest con here is that chl were not complicit in forgery but the govt and ridlatama were both complicit according to tribunal, the govt didnt suffer but benefited from their own wrongdoing.Shocking tribunal...I wonder if chl will have police docs by now?

[jnbrw] 28/3/2019 11:17

Whitewash

Cover up

Media spin, control the narrative



BLACK IS WHITE, EVIL IS GOOD, LIES ARE TRUTH

Goebbels, Alistair Campbell, all the masters of media manipulation would be proud


Most sickening thing is when the arch villains feign to be the defenceless, vulnerable injured party (David) against the billion dollar international oil conglomerate(Goliath).


Lol

[jack1236] 28/3/2019 10:25

That is more likely to work then -

'That will work lads :/ I can see them being put into a corner then.'

[jack1236] 28/3/2019 10:22

Noor did exactly what he was told to do by the ROI bods, legal bods, disappear and reappear after the Tribunal Hearing; thus his victory speech after the Award.

[andy] 28/3/2019 10:20

jamie41428 Mar '19 - 00:24 - 40637 of 40641

That will work lads :/ I can see them being put into a corner then.


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:-) yes I think they will be banging on DQ's door pleading to settle OOC!

[bobic] 28/3/2019 09:28

Not yet still can tell our side of story.Will Roi press publish it.

[nico115] 28/3/2019 09:08

I am shocked there has been no press or publicity of ROI wrongdoing I believe if we had go this into the press ROI would've come knockingLast thing they would want is the world knowing about their theft Huge missed opportunity

[jack1236] 28/3/2019 08:56

Kabar24.com , JAKARTA - Indonesia for Global Justice (IGJ) welcomed the rejection of the Churcill Mining Annulment Award application for the second International Arbitration award this year.

In the previous decision of the International Center for Settlement of Investment Disputes (Icsid), on December 22, 2016, the Arbitral Tribunal did not accept Churchill's claim because 34 mining permit documents that were used as the basis of the dispute by Churchill were considered inauthentic and invalid.

That is because, 34 of the mining permit documents were the result of forgery and fraud by Ridlatama, as a business partner of Churchill. Churchill was considered aware of this action, so there was a bad faith from Churchill in the process of filing the lawsuit.

Then, in March 2019, the assembly again rejected the arbitration lawsuit which was returned by the same plaintiff.

IGJ Executive Director, Rachmi Hertanti, said that Indonesia's victory over Churcill Mining and Planet Mining's lawsuit had to be used as a lesson by the Indonesian Government on Indonesia's commitment to various international investment protection agreements, both under the Bilateral Investment Treaty (BIT) and FTA / CEPA.

The regulation contains the Investment Protection Chapter, or Investment Contract, which contains provisions regarding the investor's claim mechanism against the state, also known as the Investor-State Dispute Settlement Mechanism (ISDS).

"The more BIT or CEPA with ISDS Mechanism signed by the Government of Indonesia, the more exposure of investors' claims to Indonesia will be. So that the Indonesian government must remain careful with this type of international investment agreement, "he said on Thursday (3/28/2019).

Rachmi explained that the ISDS mechanism would make Indonesia easily threatened by foreign investors if there were national regulations that investors considered to be detrimental to them. Moreover, the opening of the ISDS mechanism can be used by any foreign investor, including investors who are not in good faith. And this will certainly harm Indonesia by facing a lawsuit in international arbitration.

The experience of the total cases of foreign investors' claims against Indonesia caused by BIT 50% is in the mining sector, namely the case of Churcill Mining and Planet Mining (2012), Newmont Nusantara BV (2014), and India Metal Ferro Alloys (2017). The highest value of the investor lawsuit was submitted by Churchill Mining to Indonesia, which amounted to US $ 1 billion.

"The issue of mining governance and licensing is a gap for the entry of investor claims to Indonesia, due to the chaotic mechanism of our mining permits," he added.

It should be noted, the lawsuit of foreign investors against the Government of Indonesia, specifically Churcill Mining, Planet Mining and IMFA was based on the Bilateral Investment Treaty (BIT) between Indonesia and the United Kingdom, Australia and India.

According to him, there are many problems regarding Indonesia's national regulation, but the existence of the ISDS mechanism in an international investment agreement signed by the Indonesian Government, will increasingly make the opportunity for Indonesia to be sued by foreign investors in international arbitration.

Check out other news about the topic of this article, here:
lawsuit, churchill mining, arbitration

[jamie414] 28/3/2019 00:24

That will work lads :/ I can see them being put into a corner then.

[neo26] 27/3/2019 20:43

This is one of the reasons he didnt show and we were negatively effected.I believe in karma..

[andy] 27/3/2019 20:42

Jack,


"
There are lots of things we could do, set up a website with the facts; start a petition, email companies wanting to do business in Indonesia, speak to the British - Indonesia Association etc. We can be a real pain."


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Not a bad idea!

[jack1236] 27/3/2019 20:32

Neo

In this interview Noor says he knows about the 'forged documents' but is 'revoking the licences' because of 'forestry' breaches. That's bizarre.



The 'forgery issue' wasn't introduced into the case for a couple of years.

[wulber] 27/3/2019 20:26

Doesn't matter guys now, just whats next!

[neo26] 27/3/2019 20:23

JackThat is a good point, according to his witness statement he said he knew of the forgery around sept 2010, good few months after he revocated them for forestry.What does noor say in tempo?

[wulber] 27/3/2019 19:10

Can't go back through ICSID with a barge pole either way.Hoping for Pala to say we have put in place a funding option outside ICSID.Maybe l am clutching at straws, but my gut is that CC have not been paid anything, Pala have a deep pocket but $500,000 from the annulment (and lost) is pocket change for them and we have a very strong case if we pick up the pieces and look at all the new evidence that has come to light since Dec 2016.I am not blinkered but feel there is a lifeline.

[jack1236] 27/3/2019 19:03

Why didn't Churchill flag up the 2012 Tempo interview; it was impartial. Noor knew about the forged licences yet chose not to revoke because of forgery; but because of forestry permits.
That would mean he was complicit in someway regarding the forged licences; 'authorized forgeries'.

The Tempo article is on Churchill's website.