Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Ceres Power Holdings LSE:CWR London Ordinary Share GB00B0351429 ORD 1P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +0.00p +0.00% 13.125p 13.00p 13.50p - - - 26,993 08:00:21
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Electronic & Electrical Equipment 1.1 -12.6 -1.4 - 133.04

Ceres Power Share Discussion Threads

Showing 6151 to 6174 of 6175 messages
Chat Pages: 247  246  245  244  243  242  241  240  239  238  237  236  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
19/9/2017
22:09
ceres have 4 OEMs already with JV andor JDA in thepipelinethe 5th yet to be named by eof year we could get to know on 4/10 who that is in anycase ceres wants to exploit CHP development as its core tech in Europe as part of its distributedgenerationstrategy notwithstanding licensing & royalty payments
ben chod
19/9/2017
17:03
Celeritas It's all happening out there. Just have to hope CWR have a commercial partner very soon or there is a risk they might get left behind.
angus17
19/9/2017
16:04
htTps://automobiles.honda.com/clarity-fuel-cell htTp://www.automobilemag.com/news/a-ride-around-the-track-in-toyotas-hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered-semi-truck/
celeritas
19/9/2017
14:38
Just over 3 months left of the 2 year Honda JV agreement. They and the possible 3rd party manufacturer must be pretty close to knowing which way they are going to go.
angus17
18/9/2017
12:02
PotterYou're a man of good insight and taste. In with you plus IQE and Nano. Also hold Ballard and NEL
tonsil
18/9/2017
11:31
errrm, isn't cwr up 300% from when it was at 4p? Those things don't prove anything. itm is up because it's flavour of the month - aim company prices are nothing to do with the actual underlying business, just the perception. In business terms, it's obvious that a technology where the source energy to the delivered energy is 80% is better than a technology where the same efficiency is 25%. That's the difference between solid oxide fuel cells which Nissan is trialling using cwr's sofcs, and pem fuel cells require very expensive pure hydrogen. Of course, most aim investors don't know or care, and they help drive the short term shareprice (down aa well as up) but the medium term price reflects the actual company prospects. btw, does anyone doubt h2 powered cars need 4 times the input energy, compared to sofc cars, which require just 1.2 times the input energy? Just read up any serious hydrogen economy analysis (not green websites, authortative ones). Back to a discussion last week, where someone thought a 10kW fuel cell was madness/stupid or some other deep analytical statement, even after i demonsrtated using his own example that they weren't? Well the Nissan ev using cwr range extending fuel cell, which at 5kW is just half the power of the 10kW discussed, extends the range from 160km to 600km - which isn't nonsense or madness now is it. Making out Nissan have got their maths wrong is madness. Easy to see those claims, just google Nissan e-nv200. (of course the claims are for probably the most flattering scenario, as you would expect).
pierre oreilly
18/9/2017
11:09
... and hence why ITM is up 230% ! I'm in CWR, REDT & ITM as they are all potentially parts of a future core infrastructure step change in multiple Sectors.
pottermagic2310
17/9/2017
21:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-AYYmVSIx4&feature=youtu.be
smokey 1o3
17/9/2017
19:58
Probably true at lower pressures, but 5KG of H2 at 700psi takes the Toyota Mirai 312 miles apparently, not sure what a tank of petrol weighs... But you can fill up with 5kg at an adapted fuel station in a few minutes.
gspanner
17/9/2017
17:29
gspanner the post you reproduced would have been four times more impressive if tonsil realised fuel cells using current fuels were four times more fuel efficient (full cycle)than hydrogen fuel cells! cwr and Nissan are trialling sofcs which use current fuels in their tanks. (Incidentally, since you mention energy density, the energy density of H2 is negligible, hence the need to compress it to 700 atmospheres to get the density up to a usable state - and even then it's only 1/4 the energy density of current road fuels, hence the fuel tanks for the same range need to be four times bigger for hydrogen).
pierre oreilly
17/9/2017
16:15
Pinched from post by tonsil17 Sep '17 - 10:20 - 23424 of 23424 2 0 Love the simple beautiful logic of this To grasp the magnitude of the problem facing electric vehicles, we should consider what it would take to power a world full of them. Let’s start with your local corner store fueling station. The gas station that you visit routinely has underground fuel tanks with enormous gasoline fuel capacity, typically 10,000 to 20,000 gallons. This equates to an electrical energy capacity of 500 megawatt-hours. By comparison, Tesla’s Mira Loma 80 megawatt-hour battery energy station in California, the largest such installation in the United States, sits on 1.5 acres. To match the energy storage capacity of gasoline fueling stations with batteries would require a 10-acre battery farm. In other words, gasoline allows us to put a lot of energy in a small space. The hope for electric vehicles is that we don’t have to store all the electricity at your local fueling station. We can simply pull the required power from the grid. But can we? Yes and no. It seems simple enough with direct-current (DC) fast chargers, which connect to the grid, but to match the equivalent energy transfer rate of a gasoline fuel pump, an electric car charger would need to deliver multi-megawatt levels of power. Considering that the fastest level 3 chargers are rated at 0.1 megawatt, there is a massive energy transfer advantage for gasoline fuel pumps. Most electric vehicle proponents assume the wide-scale adoption of electric vehicles would likely come with a change in consumer behavior. But are consumers willing to make those changes? Not all automakers believe they are. Instead of placing bets on batteries alone, several large automakers are going all-in on hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles. Fuel-cell vehicles leverage all the advances of batteries and electric motors in recent years and are, at their heart, battery-powered electric vehicles themselves. However, they can store considerably more energy in the vehicle via hydrogen, and the energy can be transferred to the vehicle in the amount of time we are used to spending at gas stations.
gspanner
16/9/2017
23:14
Apologies I was partially responding to this: "20 or 30 years ago I thought we may move to a hydrogen economy, but these days I think it's unlikely" I think you are quoting this hxxps://phys.org/news/2006-12-hydrogen-economy-doesnt.html which was accurate in the scenario it describes but some things have changed since then. Firstly fuel cells are a bit more efficient with 60% being a fairer figure than the 50% used. The electrolysis efficiency is now 77% (ITM electrolyser at part load such as the one deployed at the Shell station at Cobham)and its generated on site. The vehicles are also different - the battery of a Tesla probably adds 500kg to the weight of the car which means that while it is a more efficient process more weight needs to be moved and that costs energy. Finally the diagram assumes that there are cars charging at the time the renewable energy is made. The hydrogen electrolyser is always connected and is a dispatchable load (can be controlled by the DNO) so it can be used to soak up the additional electricity - the same might or might not be true of battery vehicles. One terrawatt hour of renewable electricity was constrained in 2016 costing UK households and busineses tens of millions and this is likely to get worse. The phys.org article has regenerative braking in the BEV but not in the FCEV - I haven't accounted in the calculation for this but vehicles such as the new Merc FCEV will certainly include it. A fairer assessment with current tech would be 35-40% which compares very well with ICE at 19% but not the 69% of BEV. However unlike BEV it doesn't cut off the supply of fuel duty (a big factor I believe & no-one really wants the road pricing that would replace it) The UK currently frequently constrains wind generation because the power would destabilise the grid.
re1dy
16/9/2017
21:23
I thought the conversation was about the hydrogen efficiency in transport?. That's what I'm discussing.The 25% comes from IEEE and phys.org papers ime, but probably every independent reliable source would quote the same.To restate it again, this is the end to end efficiency of electricity to hydrogen to car propulsion electricity. You are stating different efficiencies.The efficiency of the sofc, cwr's product, on the same basis - source energy, bioethanol, to car propulsion electricity is around 80%. And in Mexico, where the Nissan sofc enhanced ev is to be trialled, the refueling infrastructure already exists.If you have a reliable source quoting anything much different for the end to end efficiency of hydrogen transport then I'd be interested in reading it.
pierre oreilly
16/9/2017
20:32
I would be more sceptical if it were the manufacturers reporting the efficiency but its not. In ITM's case it is Thuga and RWE who are both German regional utilities. The Thuga plant is straight power to gas and is >70% efficient. The RWE has heat recovery for a district heating system and is 86% efficient. Both of these systems are meant to utilise excess renewable electricity so there are no losses in generation. Steam reformation of natural gas to hydrogen will be the bulk of the source of hydrogen as this centralises the decarbonisation to large plants and is to a great extent compatible with existing gas boilers in homes, at least up to 12% hydrogen by volume. Where does the 25% efficiency figure come from? Ceres is an interesting company and there are lots of uses for its tech. I'm surprised it hasn't found its way into refrigeration APUs on trucks yet as these run continuously while the truck has cargo and must contribute significantly to pollution while also being expensive to run. The Ceres boiler is a good idea but probably more suited to climates where heating is year round as there isn't much opportunity to use the heat during the summer.
re1dy
16/9/2017
11:21
Hi reidy, You have to be careful when readng quoted efficiencies as to what exactly they are the efficiency of. The complete overall full cycle efficiency will be around 25% for energy storage as hydrogen. It has always been known to be very energy inefficient, hence the hydrogen economy being tied at the hip with Nuclear power where wasting 75% of energy wasn't really much of a factor (with several nukes, plenty energy would be wasted anyway, hence 'freeish' power at low demand periods. IEEE papers quote measured efficiencies of the h2 generation bit by electrolysis of 58%, then it has to be compressed (that's energy intensive, not sure of the efficiencies of that bit, suffice it to say Toyota deliver h2 at 2 different pressures in their hydrogen forecourt pumps, presumably the lower pressure costing much less than the higher pressure due to the extra costs of compression). Then in the fuel cell there's an efficiency which iirc is around 80% for pems and higher for cwr's sofcs. All in all, the quoted 25% I've seen quoted in reliable sources seems about right to me for the overall efficiency of h2 storage. Just to be clear, cwr is going the route of sofcs - higher efficiencies, using readily available fuel (not hydrogen). In cars, that's an obvious advantage (in say a hybrid ev with a topup sofc to extend the range as discussed before and probably Nissan's interest). In the home, cwr was proposing an sofc using natural gas to both provide heating and generate (expensive) electricity, worth 3 times the gas cost - but that is from when i last looked in detail several years ago, not sure whether that is progressing or not.
pierre oreilly
15/9/2017
22:43
Some of the figures mentioned for efficiency are fairly old. The RWE plant in Germany has published efficiency in excess of 80%, with fuel cells in excess of 60% and no transportation loss as the hydrogen is generated where it is used. The battery weight for a large truck battery is estimated to be 16 tonnes which would mean many more trucks on the road to carry the same amount of freight. Hydrogen offers a way to remove the carbon from natural gas used in household boilers which otherwise could only be done by converting to electricity. The only way to do that would be more widespread use of heatpumps. I've got one of them and by golly are they expensive. Electrification of old railway lines is now cancelled. It may not be coincidence that Alsthom has demonstrated production ready commuter trains powered by hydrogen in Germany. I'm sure that new rolling stock and hydrogen refuelling infrastructure would be cheaper than electrification. Hydrogen will certainly have a role. Personally I think it will be substantial but not the whole story.
re1dy
15/9/2017
17:09
Hmmm my buy order is shown as a sell again.
pr4w2b0y
15/9/2017
12:41
Take a look at ITM for an answer to the Hydrogen question.
pottermagic2310
15/9/2017
12:29
Thoughtful post Pierre, thank you, and much to agree with, except imo the foreseeable future is nearer 2 or 3 years if that. The next U.K. election may well change everything and perhaps not entirely for the worse. In the meantime the establishing of CWR generating systems domestically as part of a distributed and resilient grid would be a great start. Dynamic energy pricing would allow these customers high prices for injecting to the grid on calm cold winter evenings for example. On second thoughts, having regard to the quality of the current spectrum of politicians perhaps your time-scale is nearer the mark. Anyway I continue to hold.
dozey3
15/9/2017
11:07
20 or 30 years ago I thought we may move to a hydrogen economy, but these days I think it's unlikely. In those days, we had a few nukes with plenty of freeish electricity at night with which to generate the hydrogen, and we could have built plenty more to feed a hydrogen economy. Various interests campaigned to close off that avenue of cheap energy. One main problem is the inefficiency of storing energy as hydrogen, and then getting it out again, something like a 25% efficiency (i.e. you need 4 kWh of electricity in to get 1 kWh of energy out after transportation to where it's needed. We simply can't afford that largess, and it'll become even more unaffordable as time goes on. Evs mean we are going to face a massive electricity shortage (it's easy to show the gov for plan for evs is impossible) but nevertheless the growth in demand will mean no cheap electricity to make hydrogen. Yes, i know what itm do, and have seen it's share performance, lucky you!. But one station is different from saying another 4449 will be built, especially when we can reasonably assume another 4.5k charging point for evs are likely to be built. These things aren't cheap. The infrastructure point is a major advantage for fuel cells using readily available fuels with no massive infrastructure necessary. That's just my view for the foreseeable future, and could be very wrong of course, and doesn't say anything beyond the foreseeable future, say 20/30 years.
pierre oreilly
14/9/2017
17:25
PO dont agree on Hydrogen infrastructure. That is exactly the way things are going. See ITM. They have a refueling unit at Shell Station on M25 near me.
smokey 1o3
14/9/2017
16:30
Wow, these have come a hell of a long way, not looked for years, very impressed. I've stuck them on my watch list.
celeritas
14/9/2017
16:04
Bye Tom, i hope we can get on better next time.
pierre oreilly
14/9/2017
16:02
I've bought a couple of lots today - no buying online now, but online quotes for selling, always a good sign. Mainly buys today overall. The main reason i bought more was due to not realising until recently that cwr had a jv with Nissan. Looking foward to more news from that. And scanning through the rnss, it looks like cwr are expecting turnover to double this year due to several jvs. Seems to be in a similar space to itm, only better, and other areas too. That makes it good enough for me to increase my punt.
pierre oreilly
Chat Pages: 247  246  245  244  243  242  241  240  239  238  237  236  Older
Your Recent History
LSE
GKP
Gulf Keyst..
LSE
QPP
Quindell
FTSE
UKX
FTSE 100
LSE
IOF
Iofina
FX
GBPUSD
UK Sterlin..
Stocks you've viewed will appear in this box, letting you easily return to quotes you've seen previously.

Register now to create your own custom streaming stock watchlist.

By accessing the services available at ADVFN you are agreeing to be bound by ADVFN's Terms & Conditions

P:40 V: D:20170921 10:39:43