Bt Share Discussion Threads

[montyhedge] 30/11/2016 08:04

So Sharon White caved in to Sky and Talk Talk.

[spendalot] 30/11/2016 06:42

yep BT will come to an agreement, question being who says OR have to accept Sky or TT as customers.

[pacemaker1000] 29/11/2016 23:04

beat me to it Jenny...
expect an announcement soon that BT have now come to an agreement with Ofcom on the terms of legal seperation

[pacemaker1000] 29/11/2016 19:43

Shofip..you're either a Talktalk/Sky mole or have been blinded by their propaganda. Come back when you know what you're talking about.

[jenny tulwought] 29/11/2016 19:35

The Union's take on today's developments:



Ofcom Digital Communications Review 29th November 2016
Ofcom has issued a further interim statement today about the Digital Communications Review (DCR). They have announced that they are pressing ahead with their proposals for the ‘separate legal incorporation’ of Openreach. This is not new – this is what Ofcom proposed back in July when they published their interim findings. In that July report, they proposed that Openreach should become a wholly owned subsidiary of BT, with its own Articles of Association, and that is essentially what they are still proposing. The issues for our members – particularly our members in Openreach – are what would this mean in practice, how would it be done and what would the implications be, particularly for pensions, job security and terms and conditions of employment?
The union, together with Prospect, has expressed a series of concerns and made a series of points to Ofcom about this, in the evidence we submitted to Ofcom in response to their July statement. You can read that evidence here (CWU / Prospect Submission). From this evidence, you will see clearly what our concerns are. In summary, we have said the following:
• The transfer of assets from BT to Openreach (eg: ducts, buildings, exchange equipment etc) would be impossible in engineering terms and could therefore only be done in a wholly arbitrary way. It would be endlessly complex and expensive to accomplish and would do nothing for customer service or in itself add a penny to the amount BT could invest in the network. In fact it could reduce the amount available because it would in itself be a very expensive thing to do. A transfer of assets would, in a legal sense, also make it very hard for us to avoid a TUPE of Openreach’s employees to the new subsidiary -Openreach, which would give us great cause for concern – see below.

• Separate legal incorporation could well be problematic. A key issue would be, who exactly would be making decisions and who would the CEO of Openreach actually be accountable to? But, for the unions, this is perhaps not the most significant issue of all in Ofcom’s proposals. Note that BT has tacitly accepted separate legal incorporation, and has today announced the appointment of a new independent Chair of an Openreach Board. In itself, this aspect of Ofcom’s proposals is not that significant to us and to our members.

• A key issue for us is where everyone in Openreach has to TUPE transfer to Openreach. If, for example, this resulted in our members in Openreach no longer being able to be active members of the BTPS this would be ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE to both CWU and Prospect. But in fact Ofcom do seem to understand the deep significance of this to our members, and say they are seeking to ensure that there is a framework to enable membership of the BTPS to continue. We would also be concerned about job security and terms and conditions of employment in the context of any TUPE – and we have been very clear with Ofcom (and with BT) about this. Our very strong preference would be to ensure that any massive TUPE is avoided, and again we have been very clear with Ofcom about that.


• Any proposals from Ofcom which undermined the BT Pension Scheme Covenant (the ability of BT to stand behind the BTPS as the scheme’s sponsor) would be unacceptable to us, and would also be an own goal for Ofcom, as it would result in the BTPS deficit becoming in our view substantially larger, and that would in itself potentially massively undermine investment in the network. You will see from our evidence that we have pressed Ofcom very hard on this. The BTPS Trustee has also submitted evidence on this and has made exactly the same point.

Contrary to some of the headlines that the press has published today, this process is not at an end. In process terms, what Ofcom has actually said is that it is taking a twin track approach:
• On the one hand, it hopes to reach an agreement with BT about the nature of this separate legal incorporation of BT (this is not a change from its position in July, when it was saying exactly this)

• On the other hand, it is also preparing for a situation where no agreement is reached, in which case it would need to issue a ‘Notice’ to the European Commission effectively asking for the EU’s agreement to its proposals. Should no agreement be reached, the issue goes to the European Commission, which would then need to embark on its own consultations – where one of the bodies it would formally consult would be the trade unions, as that requirement is written into the European legislation. This is not new either. This was exactly what Ofcom was saying in July.

We and Prospect will continue to make representations to Ofcom, and continue to remain in close contact with BT over this issue. Whilst this issue is now moving to a conclusion, it has not reached that point just yet. When it does, we will of course communicate further.
Yours sincerely

Andy Kerr
Deputy General Secretary (T&FS)

[jenny tulwought] 29/11/2016 14:18

Another promulgation from 'on-high'...

====


Digital Communications Review
We’re already implementing many of the things that were mentioned in Ofcom’s announcement today on the Digital Communications Review.

Making Openreach more independent is something both BT and Ofcom agree on and, as you saw in my note last night, we’re making progress on this. We’ve taken the first steps by appointing Mike McTighe as Chairman of Openreach. The unions and other stakeholders including the BT Pension Scheme Trustee have also given their views as part of Ofcom’s ongoing consultation.

Ofcom’s announcement today does not recommend structural separation of Openreach from BT. They acknowledge this would drive large and disproportionate costs and it is not their preferred approach.

There are many areas of alignment between BT and Ofcom and we remain in discussion. We will keep you up-to-date as things progress. We’re committed to reaching a voluntary agreement that recognises the needs of all communications providers and is good for customers, shareholders, employees, pensioners and investment in the UK’s digital future.

Gavin

[801710245] 29/11/2016 13:41

schofip

As an O/R engineer of some 35+ years service with BT in it's various incarnations, I and the rest of us working here, have to accept that we're far from perfect and regularly get things wrong. However, those who suffer when we do, scream louder about how bad we are, than those who have no problem (the usually silent vast majority).

Ten years or so ago, with the country in the grip of the credit crunch, O/R (backed by the financial resources of the group as a whole), embarked on the national fibre roll-out undertaking, which the likes of Virgin, Talk-Talk, Carphone Warehouse etc, now enjoy/squabble over.
Had the likes of yourself and those of a similar standing, had their way back then - that is, O/R had been separated when calls for such were first aired, what state would you imagine the UK's broadband service would be in today?

[schofip] 29/11/2016 13:32

I think the shares of talk talk and sky will benefit the most from todays announcement to the detriment of BT. Time for monty to take out a few shorts

[schofip] 29/11/2016 13:30

Latest RNS

Ofcom warned it could "return" to its threat of separating BT and Openreach entirely if legal separation didn't provide "sufficient benefits" for the wider telecoms industry.

[pierre oreilly] 29/11/2016 13:27

wans't openreach just another division of bt before being called openreach? Bt, via what is now or, installed all the modern wires all over the uk. To say or should never have been part of bt shows a lack of understanding.

When or is split, the regulator will have have nothing much more to rule on bt, so the competition will have to manage without her help at every turn.

[schofip] 29/11/2016 13:08

BT has for to long been giving itself a competitive advantage over its rivals using its internal monopoly. BT should never have and should not be anything to do with Openreach. its proposal to ofcom for a voluntary agreement is laughable.

At last they have been rumbled and when fair and real competition really sets in the BT share price is going one way "down"

[redhill] 29/11/2016 12:31

You may be right monty

[montyhedge] 29/11/2016 12:15

Here we go boys, I think back to over 400p.

[jenny tulwought] 29/11/2016 11:57

Not lost on me - if any bosses are reading btw, the rumour that I enjoy several extended daily tea-breaks and 2 hours for lunch, is just that - a cruel rumour.

A-hem - a boss in the making.



I was almost tempted to agree (to a degree) with Monty earlier, that there is likely to be an share price improvement - only, Monty avoided the word 'likely'.

[isis] 29/11/2016 11:55

Well there won't be a split or forced sale - so some of the doubt has been taken away.

[minerve] 29/11/2016 11:23

"It's a shame that not many remember what BT has done for the country through the years in charity or as an employer or as an IT company.
BT was always ahead in research and sponsoring students for University Engineering degrees for so many years.
As an employer had at one time 240,000 jobs going which kept the country running worldwide.Now maybe around 80,000 jobs, if that."

Completely agree. It is lost on most people and especially petri-dish careerists like Mrs White.

[pvb] 29/11/2016 11:05

It's a shame that not many remember what BT has done for the country through the years in charity or as an employer or as an IT company.
BT was always ahead in research and sponsoring students for University Engineering degrees for so many years.
As an employer had at one time 240,000 jobs going which kept the country running worldwide.Now maybe around 80,000 jobs, if that.

Sounds like you remember the 'old days', cristh.

[diku] 29/11/2016 11:04

So how much is OR worth?...will it eventually lead to a share split?...

[montyhedge] 29/11/2016 10:23

We have come down from 480p to 350p on this uncertainty now out the way I think we should go better. Record revenue, record profits, div up 10%. I think the bounce is coming.4.85p divi on the way also.

[montyhedge] 29/11/2016 10:09

Just technical.

[isis] 29/11/2016 10:07

The RNS from BT has basically agreed with OFCOM barring one or two issues - so why go to Court?

[montyhedge] 29/11/2016 10:05

Yes investors hate uncertainty and with that out the way onwards and upwards. Yield 4.1% growing 10% pa.4.85p divi to come ex 29th Dec.I think on its way back over 400p.Surprised we are not at least 365p on this news.