Biome Technologies Share Discussion Threads

[mulligut] 13/9/2016 09:47

I had mentioned that there is a likelihood that the outcome for this is that RF would be privatised and the cash used to push the shell on a further year or two. 20%+ op margin is not a high growth company and should not be on the stock exchange. It has been like this for years. It has value, but not here. That was my point

[glyn10] 13/9/2016 08:55

Sirmark - I would give 0.80p for all the shares just for entertainment value

[glyn10] 13/9/2016 08:53

no that is not my point and nor do I believe that is mulliguts point. You just choose to interpret things to fit you own belief as your comments on this board show.

As you said RF is making operating margin BUT, the company overall is not. RF is old technolgy with limited application, hardly a success. The company has a lot of good ideas but never successfuly develops them.

Anyway, good luck with your investments

[wigwammer] 13/9/2016 07:56

Glyns point is that big revenues are evidence of a successful business, and mulliguts point is that big revenues aren't necessarily evidence of a successful business.Perhaps you two can knock your heads together and come up with a point that sticks.In the meantime, RF makes decent revenues at attractive margins, selling products people want, and crucially, has a very low implied multiple based on the current valuation of BIOM.

[glyn10] 13/9/2016 07:32

Given that SPAR has approx 12,500 stores in 35 countries with a gross revenue valued in Billions of Euros probaly not quite a fair comparison. Shame really as I would have liked Biome to have turned in to a large company that made profit.

As for individual franchisees, margin varies depending on the location of the store, competiton etc etc, I know two that make around 8%.

[wigwammer] 12/9/2016 22:39

The RF division made 25% op margin in h1.I would guess spar made closer to 2.5%.Still think the businesses are comparable?

[mulligut] 12/9/2016 21:20

Wigwammer. There are many more Spar stores out there generating more revenue than this company. That said you might get more return form a company with high street footfall selling a range of products that customers want. In the case of BIOME clearly revenue does not mean profit and it has not meant profit for many, many years as can be seen from the history of EBITDA losses.

That said the execs have kept the losses so tantalisingly close to breakeven that many have held on, hoping that one day.... After so much disappointment any positive news is no better than putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.

[wigwammer] 12/9/2016 17:16

Sirmark -I meant £1 for ALL the shares.Clearly if it is a small company with illiquid stock and a useless exec team then logically it has no value at all.Certainly a lot easier to moan about the execs than intelligently attempt to value what is there.

[mulligut] 12/9/2016 12:08

This is a stock only for speculation and for no more than a few hundred pounds and nothing in the thousands as the liquidity does not allow it to be possible at these levels.

[wigwammer] 10/9/2016 10:56

"there's also a psychological state referred to as common sense"I'm sure you have the sense of a commoner. But I doubt it helps you make money.Investment vs speculation. Yawn.Beg - any valuation thoughts to offer? Can I tempt you to buy the assets here for £1?

[begorrah88] 09/9/2016 13:13

Wolt!

Long time no see.

[jasperthemonkeygod] 09/9/2016 12:04

there's also a psychological state referred to as common sense, and knowing a basket case when you see one

have fun with your punt, wigwammer, but I wouldn't get too carried away and call it an 'invesment'

wotcha Peng!

[mulligut] 09/9/2016 11:57

wigwammer, there is a psychological state referred to as cognitive bias, that we are all subject to from time to time. This implies that you tend to stick with the position you are in and question much harder the alternative options presented.

Having followed this for some time I suspect that there is a greater likelihood of there being a privatisation of the RF side of the business, possibly to management, leaving the cash to fund a shell. That is based on history of management skill set here,but that is only pure speculation. This implies any investment (not free shares) would eventually lead to further dilution. That is the perceived viewpoint of many of those who remain long. The volume (liquidity) is not high enough to warrant even a GBP10,000 investment because such an investment is unlikely to be recovered without a major breakthrough, as an exit even of that amount would cause severe downward pressure in the share price.

[wigwammer] 09/9/2016 10:52

Thanks mulligut,Those are intelligent observations, though I'm still puzzled by the point that most investors here wouldn't take the shares if they were handed out for free.Any value at all?I hope you agree, that is strange.

[mulligut] 08/9/2016 12:56

Turnover is not profit and that seems to be the core of the problem here for the last few years. If there was a barrier to entry of the technology then it would be worthy of a longer term punt. However they are merely brokering biopolastic from one source to a buyer. Nothing more than a sales middleman. Too small for the larger entity to have an interest in until it becomes a large deal, in which case they would simply by-pass Biome and go straight to the source.

On the RF this is a sector that is not growing but has been around for over 25 years and limited in IP other than proprietary knowledge. Equally no growth for years and unlikely to break-out to the upside anytime soon. Lifestyle company if private and not a reason to stay public.

While I have no issues with management as some who have lost and have been long for some time it is too small for institutional investors to have an interest and no liquidity so even in a funding round the discount to market would be quite high to even raise 500k. The only way this could work is if it was involved in some M&A activity for growth rather than sales for releasing cash for working capital on a no growth business. Just my observational perspective.

[wigwammer] 08/9/2016 12:34

Yes, knowledge which leads them to the highly logical conclusion that this £4m+ turnover company is worth zip.Useful.I bought at 87p, sold most at 120p. Now trying to work out if I was right to sell.Is there no price you would buy at? I will obviously take "no" as another positive signal.

[begorrah88] 08/9/2016 06:04

It's testament to their knowledge of the company and the key people's ability and intentions.

....but it appears that you seem to think you know better than anyone else so crack on.

[wigwammer] 07/9/2016 17:03

"A good measure for you would be the absence of people posting counter opinions. There isn't one and hasn't been any for a long time."Music to my ears.I'm not sure that holding a large position here over the last 5 years is testament to someone's investment ability. I certainly wouldn't be broadcasting it.

[begorrah88] 07/9/2016 13:33

Your blind optimism is refreshing WW

May cost you dearly, it has for all those people that have gone before you.

The opinions and cycism you are reading on this and other threads are from people who have initially had optimism and seen it dashed over & over again.

A good measure for you would be the absence of people posting counter opinions.

There isn't one and hasn't been any for a long time.

Sirmark appears on old RNS's as owning 3%+ of this company. Many of us have had many meetings with Mines & Standen over the years. We have all lost.

The 2 biggest shareholders are sat on massive losses and the only people making money out of BIOM are the BoD.

[wigwammer] 07/9/2016 09:59

Take a look at the chart.The market looks at this through dung tinted glasses. Perhaps things aren't quite that bad.

[glyn10] 07/9/2016 07:30

reality can get distorted especially when you see the world through rose tinted spectacles

[wigwammer] 06/9/2016 17:44

That sure is a great reality check, sm.1) thanks for conceding the RF business is worth more than the market cap.2) I'll let management know about the imminent threat from milk based plastics. 3) yes, probably a few hours at best, we know that for a fact.4) the cynicism has never been greater - thanks for supplying proof.5) £300m?! You sound like someone that has been burnt badly here - reality can get distorted.