Adams Share Discussion Threads

[gromley] 21/3/2008 13:01

boh - apologies you couldn't open the docs I sent out - I only just saw your follow up email. As they are now on the Adamind website - I won't try to reformat and resend.

Katy - I agree with your conclusion - that the funds are still in sterling.

But not quite with your reasoning. The fact that the actual Sterling payout depends on the exchange rate doesn't in itself prove that the funds must still be in Sterling.

However other than that I think I'm in agreement.

Basically the "court order" enabling them to distribute funds agreed a dollar amount to be paid out, because this is a dollar company.

So when they come to actually make the payouts to comply with the order they have to make sure that the amount paid is equal to the dollar amount agreed. So when the come to make the payment to you, they work out your dollar entitlement and then convert to sterling at the prevailing exchange rate to work out the sterling entitlement. Whether the cash is already in sterling or dollars is irrelevant. I'm sure they could have done this more simply.

Anyway I remain convinced that the cash IS in sterling, because they converted the bulk of their cash in to Sterling a few weeks ago and there's no reason whatever for them to have converted back to dollars.

So if the sterling value of our distribution were reduced by exchange rate movements - the cash just stays in the company for later distribution - so it's really neither here nor there - although I do wonder how long we'll have to wait for the further distributions - I'm not sure that I'll be that patient. Then again maybe someone will now come in with an offer for the shell priced at slightly above the residual cash value? That would now be the cleanest resolution for shareholders - in fact I'd probably even go for an offer slightly below residual cash if it was going to be wrapped up quickly.

[katylied] 20/3/2008 19:48

nickcduk... that is illogical. If it depends on the exchange rate, then the funds must still be in sterling. They have committed to returning a fixed $ figure. So... It will depend on the exchange rate, only if there has to be a currency conversion first. Still, don't get me wrong. I am sure we are going to get short changed one way or another, before this debacle is over...

[biglosses] 20/3/2008 19:14

Does anyone have any idea the value of the remaining assets?

[nickcduk] 20/3/2008 16:05

It says in the statement that payment date is the 30th March.

[par12] 20/3/2008 14:30

how long before you get your cash ?? days; weeks, or years ?

[mrblogg] 18/3/2008 19:06

FWIW, heard from idealing today - they say they don't need any info from me as a nominee holder (same as luafc says above).

I also asked if they expected to meet the first deadline on the 23rd and they said they did intend to.

[katylied] 18/3/2008 18:42

Was contacted by one of my brokers today (not selftrade) who writes...

"We are writing to you in respect of your holding of ? Adamind ILS0.01 Ordinary Shares held in our Nominee system. The company has recently announced that it intends to return approximately GBP9.6 million to its shareholders. Under the terms of this return of capital, shareholders will receive approximately £0.26 per share. Based on your current holding of ? Adamind ILS0.01 Ordinary Shares, you will receive £? in cash.

The company have provided two pay dates regarding the return of capital. The first is expected to be on or about 31st March 2008. In order to receive the payment on this date shareholders are required to provide the company with information required by Israeli tax authorities by the 23rd March 2008.

Unfortunately we have not as yet received the documentation from the Company's registrars, but have been in contact with them and expect to be in receipt of it tomorrow. If the documentation we are required to provide is not received by us in order to receive the cash by the first pay date of the 31st March then shareholders will receive the return of capital on the second pay date which is expected to be on the 13th May 2008. There is no need for you to take any action. Your portfolio will be amended to reflect this return of capital".

Firstly this refers unambiguously to a return of capital (not a dividend). It also appears to be hinting that the deadline for the 1st date, may be in fact be missed. I can't say I am particularly surprised by that. This whole debacle ain't over til its over. Ho Hmmmmmmmm....

[dangersimpson2] 18/3/2008 14:05

iii confirmed when I phoned - 26p to be credited on or after 31st March, no docs to send to avoid the withholding tax. But no record of this on the website yet.

Sold the shares, I'm sure there would have been a bit more profit but I owned so little its not worth the extra time i'd spend on them. 7% profit, better than a bank account...but not on a risk adjusted basis!

[par12] 18/3/2008 13:45

eenmakkie; ever thought of being an English Teacher, UK schools crying out for people like you :0)

[eenmakkie] 18/3/2008 11:38

Almost did get a hart attack when speaking my broker about accepting the dividend and the providing of the info of non "Israeli residence"

He said he can read that they are going to pay around .26pence a share and not 26 pence a share.

Had to correct him but he didn't believed me because he read the papers.

It is a fu@*in° nightmare this things.

Anyway still think it is 26pence they will pay, because I did made the calculation by my self.

Anyone has more news regarding the proof you need to sent of non-Israeli in order to avoid a 20% withholding tax?

[biglosses] 17/3/2008 18:07

Got an e-mail today from Hoodless regarding the re-distribution with the 2 dates.

Don't really understand why there are 2 separate dates but does anyone know if there is any benefit of waiting until the 2nd date? Obviously I want to get the cash as soon as possible so would naturally opt for the first date.

I've also got a tranche of shares with Td Waterhouse but haven't heard anything from them. Has anyone had any contact with Td?

Cheers

[luafc] 17/3/2008 16:43

I am assuming this is a capital distribution and not an income one.

With the shambolic communications and procedural performance of Adamind, however, it might be damgerous to make any such assumptions.

I'd be grateful, therefore, if anyone can confirm the nature of the dividend transaction.

Incidentally, I've been informed by two brokers that UK nominee holders should not need to take any proactive steps to receive the divi at the end of the month, or more likely early April. The "required information" to be provided prior to 23 March (Easter Sunday!!!!) referred to in Friday's 14th March release should be addressed by the brokers.

That's what I've been told anyway.

[wba112233] 17/3/2008 12:50

I have heard nothing from Selftrade either.

[katylied] 17/3/2008 10:35

Reminded that Selftrade don't ever actually contact people outside of their own internal mail system, I just logged on to check. There was nothing in my Inbox. I mailed them to ask what was going on with ADA. Who knows, they may even reply someday. Meanwhile, regarding (pooled) nominee accounts. Since it is the broker who is on the share register, I should have though only the 'broker' would be under any legal requirement to prove identity/residency? If others learn differently from their own broker 'nominee' experience, perhaps they could post that info?...

[eenmakkie] 17/3/2008 10:18

Yes,
I have got the same feeling.
Had to sell at 27p last year in the beginning when the offer came out.
Or even 34p just before the mess.

[gromley] 15/3/2008 10:24

Just further to my posts whilst out and about yesterday a bit further from the letter that you might find useful :

I mentioned that to avoid the witholding tax you need to prove that you are not an Israeli resident :

You do this by completing the form which includes a number of declarations.

However, the form also states Please attach to this declaration an approval from your country's tax authority, translated to English, approving your residency in such foreign country.

On the other hand the covering letter merely asks for you to attach "a clear copy of your passport".

I presume therefore it is just the latter that needs to be done, although it's not clear and to be honest I'm not awfully comfortable with that.

I think a call to the corporate actions department at Capita registrars is in order. There is no contact number given for them so I presume one will have to go through the main head office number (0) 20 8639 3399. I'll be aiming to speak to them on Monday, but others may wish to do so also.

If you don't have a passport then I'd strongly advice speaking to them to confirm how you procede.

In the case of Spread bets

I presume the SBet co will do all of this and will credit you account with the additional reciept once they get it (Nick - I also have part of my position with IG and that's essentially what they told me when the told me the amount of the divi applied - same amount as they told you although the tax declaration stuff wasn't clear at the time)

If you hold your shares in a nominee account
Then I would suggest that you contact your broker asap - to confirm that they'll be handling this and whether or not they need you to provide any information / evidence.

I'm beggining to wish I hadn't gotten into this one - the profit is not worth the grief to be totally honest.

If anyone would like to see a scanned copy of the form and covering letter, please send me an email titled "adamind" to [e-mail]

Cheers,

gromley

[par12] 15/3/2008 08:34

I knew there would be a hurdle

[eenmakkie] 15/3/2008 08:13

"You need to prove that you are a non-israeli in order to avoid a 20% withholding tax. (Not sure how this will be hadled for nominees?)"

This can only be the case that not a lot of shares are in the hands of Israeli.


It started as a nightmare and it ends as a nightmare.
I wonder if simmilar will hapen with Orca sell and payout?

This whole Emblaze related co's are all a mess,.... Damm learned the hardway that there is notting like "easy money" Buy shares below cash level and you still get ripped off.

[lord santafe] 14/3/2008 15:47

must be worth a punt at 3p.

[doimind] 14/3/2008 10:58

BIZARRE

Just read the rns as well- the number of shares stated is different from what I have in black & white in front of me in the letter.

What a shambles!

Re ex rates - I don't believe they will have had to convert the cash back to USD - if so, why convert to gbp in the first place?

[doimind] 14/3/2008 10:51

Hi gromley here (had to re-register to get access from my pda)

I have letter, in brief :

Total distribution : usd 19.2
No of shares : 36,783,311 (approx = my recent guess @ tmf)
=> usd 0.522

So roughly 26p / share as we'd guessed (nick I guess igi will therefore make a further adjustment)

Even though the cash is already in sterling,because it is declared in usd the exact gbp payout is depedent on the ex rate at time of payment (obviously any difference remains in the co for later distribution)

You need to prove that you are a non-israeli in order to avoid a 20% withholding tax. (Not sure how this will be hadled for nominees?)

No indication of how much cash is left, nor timescales, but : "it remains the co's intention to distribute as much of the co's resources as possible & a further announcement will be made in due course concerning further distribution."

Cheers,

Gromley

[nickcduk] 14/3/2008 10:22

Bohemia - I am going on the assumption that they have converted the sterling balance into dollars already. I assume they would have done this a few weeks ago to satisfy the Israeli courts they had the funds to return. Sterling has strengthened about 3 or 4% in the intervening period and we are therefore down the corresponding amount.

If they have yet to convert any of the sterling into dollars then your point is valid. I don't believe that to be the case though. I do wish I am totally wrong though as I have over 600k shares here and each point is worth a fair whack.

[bohemia] 14/3/2008 10:10

nick, yes this distribution is dependent on the FX rate but in the long-run (after the final payout) it makes little difference.

The company's cash is in sterling and euros. Say they have £12m in the bank (I know these numbers aren'texact but thats not the point). That's reported as $24m on 2.0 cable.

The company pays out $19m which will use up £9.5m of the cash, so there's £2.5m left.

Now what if cable collapses to 2.2. The payout is still $19m which is £8.6m so your payout falls. But now there's £3.4m for the later payout.

Yes I want more now, but what difference does it make really?

[nickcduk] 14/3/2008 09:42

I had a chat with the advisers today. $19m was to be returned and the number of shares that are subject to the return is 36.9m. That equates to about $0.515 per share. We are very much exposed to currency risk because the sterling amount will be calculated on the date that the funds are returned. If you get your forms in before the first date then that you will have your dividend converted into sterling at the forex rate on the day. Similarly if your forms go in before the second date then you will get the exchange rate on that day.

It is a nightmare situation we face. I estimate we are down about 0.75p per share because of the companies inability to pay the dividend out in sterling. The least they could have done is hedge the cash balance before it was distributed.

I notice an announcement has just been made which pretty confirms my figures.