Vero Software Share Discussion Threads

[emergin] 16/5/2008 11:56

A very interesting comment...In addition to the positive results from North America, Europe was instrumental in providing growth with Germany, France and Italy all providing good revenue, these markets will give growth to the company, that's why I have invested in VERO Software an outstanding company with the right product in the right place at the right time.

[rainmaker] 13/5/2008 01:41

Looking at the forecasts for 2008 and 2009 and applying a p/e of the following-8(pretty much lowest rating post results),10(average rating, I would say) and 15 times(pretty much the highest in recent years*)we get the following prices and the percentage increase from the current 15.75 p share price-


2008 earnings(released April 2009)est 3.40p-
After 1 year holding period, % gain from current share price of 15.75p if Vero meets estimates and trades on 8,10 or 15 times historic eps respectively-
(x8) 27p+71%
(x10)34p+115%
(x15)51p+223%

2009 earnings(released April 2010)est 4.50p-
After 2 year holding period,%gain from current share price of 15.75p if Vero meets estimates and trades on 8,10 or 15 times historic eps respectively-
(x8) 36p+51%
(x10)45p+68%
(x15)67p+106%


2009% figures are compound rates ie 8 times 2009 estimates=36p which is 1.51 x 1.51 x 15.75p(the current share price)

* actually I believe it traded at 18 times historic earnings briefly within the previous three years but don't want to overcook things so have used 15 times.

regards

[rainmaker] 13/5/2008 00:54

This I find rather bizarre-according to several sources their Broker, Blue Oar expect Vero to pay a maiden dividend in the twelve months to either 31 Dec 2009 or 31 Dec 2010. However as we all know the Company recently announced that they will have a Capital restructuring(this gets around the problem of them not having the distributable reserves to pay a dividend) specifically for the purpose of paying a dividend but if they wait until after the 12 months months to 2009 or later then they won't need a Capital restructuring since they will have the distributable reserves. Make sense? Expect a dividend this year accompanied by the sale of the Camtek HQ, since surplus to requirements.

regards

[emergin] 09/5/2008 12:04

Hi Rainmaker.

Key points from the Preliminary results from VERO Software indicates that the company is continuing their unbroken run of revenue growth and the fourth consecutive year of increased earnings. The share price is trading at a low price giving an opportunity to make profits. //

[rainmaker] 06/5/2008 13:21

Thanks Emergin-Dividend in September?, votes please!

regards

[rainmaker] 06/5/2008 13:21

Thanks Emergin-Dividend in September?, votes please!

regards

[rainmaker] 06/5/2008 13:20

Would like to but will be out of country

regards

[varies] 06/5/2008 10:45

This is not the first year that Vero has suggested it might find a way to pay a dividend but I would rather wait another year or two than see money wasted on a capital re-organisation. If we are set for a few years of profits, the technical difficulties should resolve themselves !
Although the results for 2007 are out, I have not yet received the accounts which may cast some light on these matters.
The AGM usually takes place in Stroud in mid-June. Are any of you going ?

[rainmaker] 06/5/2008 00:46

Next task is to work out the Company's Working Capital requirements

regards

[rainmaker] 05/5/2008 21:30

Hi Emergin, Valhamos et al,

A Friend of mine has contacted Blue Oar to ask why, when the Company has announced a capital restructuring to pay a dividend they do not have a dividend yield in their forecasts. If you disagree, tell me but the way I read the statement in the annual accounts is that they will pay a dividend with the interims in September(probably accompanied with news of the sale of Camtek's Head Office since a capital restructuring usually involves an asset sale)

regards

[rainmaker] 03/5/2008 10:28

Thanks Valhamos, I appreciate your point but frankly Vero's undervaluation is getting ridiculous. I get the strong impression that selling is on the basis of the falling share price rather than any change in fundamentals

regards

[emergin] 02/5/2008 11:01

With the punters taking profits, VERO share price offers an opportunity to increase my stock holding. The price is right.

[valhamos] 02/5/2008 07:54

Rainmaker

I don't think a broker would factor in as yet unannounced acquisitions into a forecast.

I think what you have here with Blue Oar is a repeat of last year's situation. I suspect what has been called "pre-tax" and "eps" is not what we would understand by the terms but something else - an inaccurate "normalised" figure with respect to product development. I believe tucked away in their report are the proper numbers but they are not picked up by the financial websites. Hence last year Blue Oar could come up with an "eps" of (speaking from memory) 2.1p yet the real forecast was something like 1.3p allowing Vero to say they were going to beat forecasts, with the final result being 1.8p.

Unless you have the whole note the Blue Oar numbers are pretty meaningless. I have pointed this out to Blue Oar but they didn't want to know.

[rainmaker] 02/5/2008 02:04

Yep I calculate the PEG as 0.07

regards

[rainmaker] 02/5/2008 01:44

Wow, the Company's PEG must be very low- will post later with the calculations

regards

[rainmaker] 02/5/2008 01:40

Just found them-as follows-


Year to Turnover Pre Tax EPS P/E YIELD

31 Dec 2007 £12.67 mln £1.09 mln 1.79p 8.8 0.00%
(historic)

31 Dec 2008 £14.20 mln £1.80 mln 3.40p 5.1 0.00%
(forecast)

31 Dec 2009 £15.60 mln £2.30 mln 4.50p 3.8 0.00%
(forecast)

Some points worth making-

1)Screamingly cheap

2)Fairly obviously there are further acquisitions to come to support these estimates.Although having said that, the Company is highly operationally geared, meaning that the vast majority of it's costs are of the fixed rather than variable variety so as now profitable any increase in turnover(providing they can control their costs which they have proved they can) will have a disproportionately positive effect on their profits.

3)I know there has been a great deal of criticism on this thread about the Company's Broker, Blue Oar.However Vero have already announced there will be a capital restructuring to pay a dividend so how can they forecast no yield for the current year?

regards

[rainmaker] 29/4/2008 08:30

Anyone got estimates for the current year's trading?

regards

[emergin] 25/4/2008 11:11

Vero Software Plc is a company that creates and distributes software for aiding the design and manufacturing process in specific sectors of the industry. The specific sectors include the design and manufacture of plastic injection moulds, sheet metal stamping dies, progressive dies, shoe moulds, electrode production, multi-axis laser cutting, Wire EDM and others. These widespread product types are in turn to be found in a multitude of manufacturing industry sectors such as automotive, electronic, medical, white goods and aerospace.

Vero Software has offices in Italy, England, Japan, France, Canada, USA and China. The company now has a user base that numbers more than 20,000 and supplies products to more than 40 countries through its wholly owned subsidiaries and competence centres.

Vero trades its shares on the AIM the ticker is VERO there is indeed an opportunity to Buy for growth as the Share Price is trading at only 17.50p with a Market Cap of £6.61 million..

The most recent news from VERO is the Preliminary results for the year ended 31 December 2007
Financial and operating highlights are worth viwing :

[varies] 24/4/2008 13:48

Des
Thank you so much for analysing the Italian turnover tax for us.
The treatment of this tax has always distorted VERO's figures and I do wish they would report it differently.
As an increasing proportion of VERO's business is done outside Italy so this factor diminishes.
I agree with you that the shares look high enough against the market but I shall hold on in the hope of favourable developments; I am rather a fan of Mr. Gyllenshammer.

[deswalker] 22/4/2008 13:30

I'm a big fan of EBITDA/EV calculations but be wary of that metric here unless one takes the Italian Turnover Tax above the EBITDA line. Else EBITDA doesn't particularly mean much IMO.

If one is nerdy enough then it's possible to set up a pair of simultaneous equations for the segmented Italian Ops to work out the effective Turnover Tax and Profit Tax rates and then take the former above the EBITDA line to get a more meaningful figure to compare with other stocks. As you've probably guessed I am nerdy enough and back in 2006 when I first bought I worked it out for the 2005 figures. I got an effective Turnover Tax of 3.6% of Italian Turnover (to be taken above the EBITDA line) and an Italian Profit Tax of 46%. HTH.

I must say that I see much cheaper shares than this in the current market but good luck to holders. It's certainly been resilient over the last twelve months.

Des

[rainmaker] 18/4/2008 20:58

I should also add that as stated by VERO,current trading is above that of 2007 and there are further product launches this half.Anyone have estimates for 2008 and 2009? from which we can then calculate a PEG. Actually if you look at the results in terms of EBITDA there are good.

regards

[emergin] 18/4/2008 10:46

Vero Software plc announced their Preliminary results for the year ended 31 December 2007, on the 3rd of April 2008. I liked the report and as the share price was trading at 17.75p I invested a second trcunch of funds, with a view of making some extra profits

Stephen Palframan, Chairman, commented:

A record rise in revenue, a 40% increase in earnings that exceeded expectations and a 19% improvement in after tax performance make this an outstanding set of results for 2007. While it is true that 2007 provided some of our markets with good economic conditions the results are even more distinguished considering the distinctly unfavourable currency rates. With our highest ever levels of investments in new product development and our continued interest in qualified distribution companies Vero Software is confident of further growth in 2008. 4.

[varies] 14/4/2008 09:39

rainmaker
Thank you for alerting us to the possibility of VERO selling Camtek's offices. If they fetch £368,000 this would just about pay for all the lawyers' and accountants' fees to be incurred in a capital reconstruction !
Whilst they are about it, they might as well make an all share offer for TSP where Mr Gyllenhammer also holds some 20-25% which would put a decent sum of cash onto the balance sheet. This is a pet fancy of mine as I hold shares in both companies !